General Chat

Got you, Gwynne:)

Hi David, I just wanted to make the point that a commander within the police acknowledges that there is insitutional racism in the Met. And she is more in a position to know than anyone on GR. That's not to say all police are racist but the force itself acknowledges that too many are. Gwynne

Er Harry I think that was part of the problem - a disproportionate amount of black male teenagers were being stopped because elements of the force were making the assumption that they were more likely to be guilty of something because of their colour.

Would just repeat my point, racism can be found wherever you look for it. Is a shop-keeper racist cos he sells golliwogs. Is a police officer guilty because he thinks he knows that a dis-proportionate amount of crime is committed by coloured people in his area. I was a policeman for 30 years, and my area was pretty much all white. we stopped a disproportionate amount of teenage motorists, cos we thought they would be more likely to be joy-riders or similar. Is that discrimination or a common sense view. ? Happy days

Harry You're probably right that institutional racism is rife. However other walks of life haven't the power to arrest you as the police have - that is the worrying thing. Debby

Hi Gwynne I remember and appreciate that but I do think it's an unfair term on those in the force who aren't racist and who struggle against it.

Three years ago - 'The Metropolitan Police remains 'institutionally racist' 10 years after the murder of Stephen Lawrence, the commander of Scotland Yard' s anti-racist unit has said In an interview to mark the anniversary of the black teenager's death, Commander Cressida Dick, the head of the Met's diversity directorate, said the force was unlikely ever to be free of racism.' Gwynne

Thanks Harry:) I actually said ' struggling against insitutional racism' because I haven't read the report - only summaries. I understand the findings but while I know there are racist elements, I believe the term is unfair to the many decent police we have.

Think I sit just about where Muffy is. David, you are consistent in your views and there is nothing wrong in that. Seems to me that you are just as far out one way as some of the threaders are the other. This ,institutional racialism' thing in my opinion is a PC thing gone mad. If you look for it anywhere, say the national ballet, you will find it. Stick to your guns though, David, could be you are right and I am wrong. Happy days and thanks for all the replies.

I have frequently felt let down by the political parties of all colours. I know many are dissatisfied with the present Labout government, but some years ago I wrote to my conservative MP when John Major was the prime minister. The MP wrote back saying that there was no point in answering my question because it was obvious that I would not vote for him. I then wrote to John Major himself, but someone else wrote back - Sir Henry Someone-or-Other and he said that I had obviously upset my MP and my best course of action would be to wait until after the election (there was shortly to be a by-election) and then to contact him again to 'mend my fences' with him. Needless to say I was not a happy bunny and did not vote for said MP! My point is that there's not a lot to choose between them one way and another. They all, of necessity, have their own agendas. The 'PC' thing has little to do with government though and much more to do with petty beaurocrats who have nothing better to do with their time but dream up imagined potential slights.

I object to so much Tom. But for example, I object to their claims about black crime figures and the comparison to black proportion of the population plus their dismissal of discriminatory arrest & prosecution when the independent report into the police force (following the murder of Stephen Lawrence) found that it was struggling against insitutional racism. Also their unsubstantiated comparisons between settled immigrant groups and incoming immigrants plus the panic inducing fabrications of what society is becoming/ will become. I object to the BNP party's belief that homosexuality is 'unhealthy for any community' and that 'Nature is at last taking revenge against the nauseating proliferation of homosexuality' when referring to AIDS in 1983 I object to any political party being led by a man who received a suspended jail sentence (in April 1998) for inciting racial hatred and then there is former leader and founder John Tyndall, who said that “Mein Kampf is my bible” and so on...

Yes Harry I do feel let down. There isn't a political party out there that speaks for me at the moment. This Government less so than any of them. The problem is, while we have a moderate Conservative party, who are next to useless, People like myself who are more right of centre (not as far as the BNP I hasten to add) don't have a voice. That's where I suppose the BNP has managed to gain support. . The best solution would be, for the Conservatives to take notice of the 25% of the population who would consider voting BNPand then adjust their policies accordingly. They should do away the blatant racism and extremism of the BNP and speak for those of us who are frustrated at not having a voice and then they can become a credible oppostition party because at the moment we don't have one. In turn the number of frustrated voters would reduce, and they wouldn't feel the need to vote BNP as a knee jerk reaction to this Governments ridiculous policies

david, what part of the bnp policies do you find objectionable, dont judge me wrong i dont even vote bnp, all i'm saying is if they could make the policies work, which i doubt they could, they would make a near perfect britain. tom.

Fred So you're saying the BNP are standing up and saying what most English people are thinking? If that is the case then I have to say I am ashamed to be English! The BNP are hiding behind their real policies which is to incite racial hatred. Debby

I couldn't agree more, Jen. But the leadership of the BNP seem to think differently. Gwynne

Here here Barry, Winston Churchill did not start the second world war! Jen

There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word which means more to me than any other. That word is England. Sir WINSTON CHURCHILL

Yes, Tom, I have seen a list of the BNP's policies. I'd wouldn't have commented on them if I hadn't. I've seen those policies alter over recent years to appeal to a dissatisfied electorate who have been whipped up into a frenzy of fear and resentment over political correctness & immigration issues by sections of the media highlighting extremes, exceptions and fabrications. The language of the party has become more subtle but the subtext is just the same. And Nick Griffin is still the same racist who denied the extent of the Holocaust and dismissed Stephen Lawrence as a drug pushing waster.

i'll vote fred for next pm.

I tried to get away from this NF issue. Of course they are racist but the majority of people, in my opinion, have sidled slightly closer to them over recent years. At school we used to stamp our feet, and sing 'if England means as much to you, as England means to me'. Would now be labelled as jingoistic and I don,t know why. I like yorkshire people, but when push comes to shove I shout for my home county Lancashire. I see little difference. thanks for the varied replies. Happy days