General Chat

So, Rolo, No comment on the article, by an educated young Muslim.
I presume, you assume, what he said about the Qu'ran is not true, by your comment:

"Yes but the two crossed swords are on the Saudi flag for a reason".

Let's look at the flag with the two crossed swords, which is the EMBLEM of Saudi Arabia, not their National flag.
The two swords represent the Kingdom of Hejaz and the Sultanate of Najd and its dependencies, which were united under Ibn Saud in 1926.
The palm tree represents the Kingdom's assets which are defined as its people, heritage, history, and resources natural and non-natural. Thus, the palm is shown to be guarded by the two swords, which represent the force to be used in defence of the nation.

There's your reason! How did this come about? Was it, as you're always stating, a case of 'Convert or die'.

The Kingdom of Hejaz was a state in the Hejaz region in the Middle East ruled by the Hashemite dynasty. It achieved national independence after the destruction of the Ottoman Empire by the British Empire, during World War I, when the Sharif of Mecca fought in alliance with the British Imperial forces to drive the Turkish Army from the Arabian Peninsula during the Arab Revolt.

The new kingdom had a brief life and then was conquered in 1925 by the neighbouring Sultanate of Nejd under a resurgent House of Saud, creating the Kingdom of Hejaz and Nejd.

So, British involvement.

Islam may have started in Saudi, but different forms have developed, like in every other religion in the world.
If you had actually read the article, instead of assuming you knew, you would see the author is also against Wahhabism.
No good just saying 'a' is 'bad', and 'B' is 'Good', and the Government are stupid.
The leaders of countries come and go - even Kings.

Instead of having a fixation, that you know best, everyone else is wrong, try understanding what the majority of Muslims believe.

Interesting article by a Muslim:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/london-bridge-terrorist-attackers-british-muslim-man-islam-saudi-mosques-wahhabi-different-a7775116.html

More police to start with!!

Totally agree with what's said here but is anything going to get done that will help fix the problem? We can all say for all parties over the years they did this wrong or ignored that; like I said I'm not explaining away or justifying; but that's done and what's to be done for the future now to protect everyone?

..but she's been in the Party for years as Home Secretary, and a lot of what she's 'promising' is contrary to how she voted in the House of Commons.

Some examples of how she voted:

Generally voted against Labour's anti-terrorism laws

Consistently voted for merging police and fire services under Police and Crime Commissioners

Generally voted against introducing ID cards

Voted a mixture of for and against a transparent Parliament

Almost always voted for greater autonomy for schools



The list of how she voted can be found here:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10426/theresa_may/maidenhead/votes

and at almost zero hours,

TMay comes out with a plan to help safeguard lives which should have already been in place. years ago as a matter of course.!.

For the first time ever I think I'll be going to vote with no clue how I'm going to vote until I get there.

*disclaimer*

Not Tory, obviously. ;-)

I'm sure you will....and how the removal of the fire watch towers did; or did not depending on your point of view; affect the fire fighting. :-D

I'm sure I'll get a 'mansplanation' about gorse burning :-D :-D :-D

I'm sure Rollo will explain all about the New Forest and it's fire coverage problems.

Like we said right at the start something needs to be done big time just none of us knows what unfortunately including the people in charge.

Cyber intelligence needs police in one form or another.
Joe Public is on the scene.
Apparently concerns about the terrorist was relayed to the police - but lack of manpower delayed proper investigation.

Centralisation may save money - but surely there's a limit with public Services.

Calls to the Fire Brigade have also been 'centralised'.
In Hampshire, it's in Eastleigh. This can cause problems if you don't know the postcode of where the fire is, as the operator may have no local knowledge of, say, the New Forest. They're very quiet about it, but I know of at least two occasions where an fire engine was sent to the wrong address.
They're also due to reduce Hampshire fire brigade by 200 this year.

Agree with all of you....I honestly don't think extra police will hurt but I don't think it will stop much either....this is by all accounts a very large group of maybe endless recruits....and if you are narrow minded and only watch one group are you going to be called racist etc etc..

I don't disagree at all about the need for more policing on our streets also more counter terrorism officers being recruited.

However, they will need more cyber intelligence and not just worries from concerned Joe Public, important as that is.

Cutting the number of police was a major faux pas.

The police get thousands of calls - some malicious, and a waste of time, but they still have to be 'looked in to'.
With the police force - and 'backroom staff' depleted, they just don't have the manpower.
With both the Manchester and London attacks, they drafted in police from nearby forces - leaving some areas without adequate police cover.

If it happened in a small town - where many police stations have been closed - how long before police from the nearest stations arrive?
......and yet again, there would, in some areas, be a vast area with inadequate policing.

We've also lost the 'local bobby, who knew an area and could keep a subtle eye on suspects, and who people felt they could actually(casually) tell their concerns to - you know, like, 'They may be dealing drugs in number 5 ', and know they would check, in passing, and it would be kept low key.
Now you phone a central call centre, out of your area, and you're telling a faceless person (who may live at number 5) of your thoughts, and dread a car with siren bawling turning up! It was only a suspicion, you thought you were doing a good thing, you weren't sure - but it turns into a major event!

Yes enough is enough, so say goodbye to some of your freedoms, I have no objection if that serves the greater good and prevents more attacks.

People have to take into account that watching suspects is time consuming, expensive and subject to countless legalities.

When those who scream about civil liberties and human rights being paramount STOP and think about what they are demanding perhaps they will shut up and open their ears to the alternative.

You cannot have your cake and eat it. Remember all the complaints about CCTV? It doesn't take long for an 'intrusion' such as that to prove it's worth.

The services can keep my online browsing and emails for 12 months, the odds of more than .001% of anything being reviewed is tiny.

A friend was banned from FB for posting about faggots (yes the Mr. Brain's meat products) they received a 24 hour ban for offensive remarks YET countless pages contain hate messages and YouTube is an open university for 'how to' build every conceivable weapon. Do you see the irony?

By all means shout for more controls but be prepared, as I am, to also lose freedoms.

I can see that if something isnt seen to be done some are going to take big exception and resort to all sorts,

Things cant carry on like this, lives being taken on a monthly basis,its all well and good telling people to stand tall and we shall not be moved stance,but a line has to be drawn,when enough is enough.

It is interesting isn't it, where will she put the borders of what is a threat and what isn't...she did say something about following more if not enough evidence to go to court?...assuming it might be positive it might mean all these "known to us" people would be followed more but then the question is how???

Only if its**proved **they are a threat.!!


Butt wasnt seen as a threat was he.? :-)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-human-rights-laws-terror-legislation-london-attack-tear-up-election-latest-a7776286.html


Many on here mentioned Human rights would this make any difference?

I fear you're right Kay......take one off the streets and plenty more to fill their space.