General Chat

I'm not of the string them high ask questions later brigade but what can be done in the real world to change all this hatred/attacks?

I honestly don't know as knee-jerk reactions won't work.

Is there anything or is it for want of a different phrase too late? Just having to carry on as normal and hope for the best which hasn't worked so far.

wish I had an idea - but I haven't :-S

I don't know either, but I do know that everytime I hear a phrase along the lines of "I stick to my own kind" it's another nail in the coffin.

'We', in the west, have a tendency to expect the 'others' who come here or even just visit, to fit in and become like us as if by some sort of osmosis, however racist 'we' might be to them. Yes we note the blatant racism of the "go back to where you came from" even to people born here and 3rd generation British, but we fail to call out the casual racism eg "My neighbour's an Indian BUT he's very nice".

It might be natural to stick to what you are comfortable with but it helps not a jot with integration, whether that is a Brit going to Spain and only communing ( probably the wrong word ) with ex-pats or the Polish person coming here and never mixing with anyone but Poles, ditto those of one religion and/or culture who see only the differences and not the similarities.

That said, there is and never has been, a fool proof way to deal with extremists, whatever ideology they have. If they weren't extremists in that ideology, they would be criminals of a similar sort, impressionable people who fall for a cause or evil people who have no cause except hate. The list is pretty endless of people who have murdered or died because something or someone told them to, or simply because ( in the case of killing) it was 'fun'.

Example of a potential threat to the community: Young man, 21 ish has posters with a recognised hate symbol on his wall, he wears paramilitary style gear, poses with a gun and spouts hate speech( racism) on FB, he has 'issues', has grown up hearing that part of the community around him is alien to what 'should be', grievances with the wider society around him that he perceives has 'let him down' while favouring those less deserving, he plants a device under a car outside a community building, at a time when terrorism is a threat worldwide. The area is cordoned off, evacuated, fear is present in those nearby. It turns out to be a fake. What should be done? Or more to the point can what has led him to this be undone? Will the attitudes he has learned at his parents knee perhaps be changed? ( Real scenario btw)..

It may be that the very thing that allows terrorists to communicate easily ( technology) will also be the thing that allows everyone else to see that other cultures, religions, and as indivuals" we have more in common than that which divides us" I hope so, but it won't be in my lifetime I'm certain.

I don't have an answer. I think, as the pessimist I have become, that we are heading towards extinction as a species, and sadly, because there are people I love for whom I would wish it were otherwise , for what we have done to the world and what we continue to do I think it might be for the best.

From my perspective, I feel that much of the problem is, sadly.............people being people. Unfortunately, there have always been warmongers and violence.

I could probably go on a 'faith based' monologue, but I will spare you :-D

Cynthia :-D

Nyx....exactly very difficult if not impossible situation agreed.

Ann...nor I

we're fortunate in a way here in Cardiff - it's always been a cosmopolitan city because of the docks.

However, I can't help feeling that these women who go around with just their eyes showing are not the slightest bit interested in integrating, or they would uncover

There's a kettle of fish Ann.....would they if they were able to?

Good point about the docks though, but then you could say the same for London.

Firstly, let's get this into perspective.
Between 2000 - 2015, 90 people were killed by terrorists in the UK
Between 1985 - 1999 - the number was 1,094
Between 1970 and 1984, 2,211 people were killed by terrorists in the UK

Firstly, we need to get rid of religious - based schools of all types.
The place of worship is the place for the teaching of religion.

Free Schools - they should come under the scrutiny of Local Authorities, and not be able to teach what they want.
All education should be equal for all children.

This may sound strange - but the reinstatement of Youth Clubs could go a long way to helping disaffected youth. Qualified Youth Workers can see a lot - and can assess behaviours.
It's also a way for children to get to know children in their area, who may go to different schools.

Interesting thought Maggie

sounds extremely sensible to me Maggie - as regards youth clubs, I feel children start school far too young in this country - I would prefer they started later and then left later when they are older - keep them occupied

stop schools from selling off their playing fields and let's have a bit more emphasis on sports - sitting in front of a computer or staring at a mobile phone for hours ain't good - get out in the fresh air

Now that I'd like to see...all the mums of the world forcing their kids outside to play sports....should happen doesn't happen. Can't do any harm either, idle hands and all that.

make school visits to the local fire station compulsory - they might think twice before setting fire to the mountains - these little oiks who keep setting fire to the Welsh mountainsides need teaching a lesson

Having emigrated from England and immigrated into 2 other countries, as well as living for almost 1 year in a 3rd, my feeling is that an immigrant should integrate into the country to which they have moved That means learning to speak the language, adapting the foods available in the country to replace the ones you cannot get when making meals, acknowledging people even if only by a nod and smile, raising children to be good citizens not isolating them.

You move to another country for a reason .............. a job (as we did), a better life, more money, as a refugee because of impossible conditions in the home country, etc ................ but that is not a reason to import the old country habits and behaviours and expect the new country to adapt to those.

You have the Europeans moving in and living in closed communities. We have mainland Chinese, some of whom never learn English.

I look quite often at a site for British Expats, and am constantly amazed at the Brits who want out of the UK but are surprised to discover that they cannot just walk in to Canada, Australia or NZ, or that they cannot buy or do everything that they would do back "home", or that those countries have different requirements or qualifications needed for trade jobs.

They in reality want to leave the UK but live and work as they would back in the UK, even to the extent of having UK shops. Some of them even refuse to adapt to the Canadian or Australian language ...... and yes, we do speak a "different" English!

Sound vaguely familiar?


Canada had its own terrorism about 20-25 years ago ............... Sikhs fighting Indian and Pakistan politicians for their own country Khalistan. That sounds vaguely familiar, doesn't it?

Fanatical Sikhs moved here and fought both within Canada and in India ........

............ anyone remember the Air India flight that went down off the coast of Ireland in 1985? The bomb on that flight was made by a Sikh living in a city not far away from where I live, and other locals were accused bet never found guilty of providing for both that bomb and the one that went off in Narita Airport Japan on the same day.

Not only that, but we and our daughter were in Toronto the day the Air India flight left, and sat in cafes and coffee shops next to people who were going to board that plane.

Every Sikh religious parade in Canada turned into pitched fighting. Every Gurdwara (temple) election turned into a battle between pro-Khalistan and anti-Khalistan forces. Religious-based schools were set up ............. this one was led by pro-Khalistan people, that one by anti-

Fortunately (?), they only hurt themselves. Members of the wider community.were not targeted, as is currently happening around the world.


Turning to what is happening everywhere now .............. I think many youth are disengaged from normality ......... lack of parental control, poor education, lack of work ???? Who knows. But improvements in all those areas would help!!!


It's a bit like those Brits from the Expat site .............. disenchanted with "home" for whatever reason, there must be something better, grass is greener elsewhere, then the realisation oh h*l it isn't any better here.

Well I think the answer is intern the know activists
Deport the ones that are Major threats along with their Families
(they would Police their own then)
Anybody who was born here exile them if they are connected to Isis
Stop anybody coming back to This country
Who has been fighting or training with ISIS aboard

Failing that try them for treason

Never mind their Human rights
What about the Human rights of the Children and decent people
living in this country That have been let down by our Government
who are seen as a soft touch
They have let far to many here with out decent vetting

Lets also remember Decent Muslims are also appalled
By senseless killing to
Never mind Rest in peace we want to also Live in peace to

I get the deport/intern argument but innocent until proven guilty or we're no better also springs to mind....BUT...that attitude is part of the reason the Western world is where it is right now.

Like I said I don't know except I do know there's no easy over night solution.

By Youth Clubs, Ann, I mean for those already at school - particularly for the 11 - 18 year olds.
Many have closed, due to lack of funding by the Government of local Councils.

Caroline so you would let them all free and put the rest of us at risk
Just on the off chance they are not involved
I do mean ones that are been watched for good reason

Not the local shop keeper
who works all hours to make a living :-( :-(

Some thoughts.
The security services could make those posing a serious threat "disappear". I don't mean shooting them in the street, but quietly removing them and disposing of the bodies.
There is not one single reason for these attacks. And they are not reasons, they are excuses.
Youth clubs. Who would want to run one nowadays, what with CRB checks, and living in fear that some disaffected youth will make an accusation of molestation.
Those going abroad join ISIL or whatever should have their passports revoked and not allowed to return.
Those foreign born who are strongly suspected of terrorism activities should be immediately deported, even if they are claiming asylum. If they claim their rights to a family life, let their families go with them.
I could go on. I don't necessarily agree with all of these, but worth thinking about.

No Joy that's what I'm saying it's not a easy decision to make at all.

If push comes to shove and if the Western world isn't there yet then they're very close, then yes something has to be done.

Many of the terrorists appear to be 'home grown' (ie born here).
The Government needs to stop them being radicalised - and this quite often happens due to disaffection, particularly in the teenage years.
No-one really knows what goes on in 'Free' schools - they're a law unto themselves.

Interesting article about Religious schools here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/i-was-radicalised-at-my-catholic-school-thats-why-birminghams-squalid-religious-schools-frighten-me-a6778261.html