General Chat

Sue. Not only have you insulted me and my "tosh", as you call it. You have insulted the Police Complaints Commission and indeed the local police authority who dealt with this case.

And you are assuming the father of Iestyn was guilty. Are you sure he was guilty? Are you sure you have all the facts to judge anyone guilty in these circumstances. He died as innocent as I assume you are, after being chased for 12 miles and pursuing officers being told to "stand down"

He was not found guilty of breaking the law, neither was his little son. Five police officers were found guilty and punished. Aberavon MP Hywel Francis has supported the family's call for the way South Wales Police handled the case to be reviewed and has called on Alun Michael (Police Commissioner) to arrange a review.

Now please explain why you support the pursuing police in these particular circumstances.:-S :-S

John.

We are NOT discussing the police wether they all should be trained to drive in pursuits or not.

Nolls put this thread up about the compensation issue not about wether the police were wrong or not.

If the silly bloody young man hadn't nicked the car and sped away and killed himself.
There would have been no need for the compensation.

I wasn't saying that the I disagree with police procedures but I do disagree with paying compensation to a child.

If we had to pay compensation to prisoners families for locking them up the coffers would be emptier than they are now.

Roy. If we are discussing whether the police should all be trained to drive at high speed and perhaps also all carry guns, that is taking this debate to a new level.

And I think I would tend to agree it needs to be looked at. The fact that no trained driver or (for that matter) no helicopter was after this fleeing car may be the problem.

It must have been frustrating to be so close to catching a villain when he "took off". The odds did seem to be stacked against police in S Wales in 2009. Possibly much the same today.

I can understand people getting emotional over this issue, Wend. Yes, father of little Iestyn was allegedly breaking the law all over the place. That is not the subject of any of this enquiry or compensation package for Iestyn. He did not have anyone in speeding car with him, as far as I can see from article I posted from BBC News - which may have a more objective analysis than Daily Mail.

Reason for this enquiry was that untrained police officers had been proven to have driven over 90mph without much training and without any authority. Local MP and/or father believe they should have been fined for speeding (almost an automatic ban at that ridiculous speed), that the compensation should have been much higher and that the police put the public in enormous danger. Note, not the pursued. THE PURSUERS. They were the ones being investigated and found guilty.

How the young man should or would have been dealt with is another matter entirely in my view. That was discussed ad nauseum four years ago.

John, Yes, His son is a victim of his fathers crime as are all the children with fathers and mothers serving a prison term and i know their are procedures they have to follow but I doubt the compensation would have been paid had the officers had the relevant pursuit training these officers would have been told to back off because they didn't have the relevant training so for me it goes back to what I said earlier If pursuit training is the main problem then maybe all officers should have to pass such training to be a serving office?


Roy

Edit, With fathers like him what sort of roll model would he have been and how would that have affected the young lad once he had grown up? follow in dads footsteps perhaps, Its not always a given that a biological father is better than another man or even no father at all

The 'waffle', as you so eloquently put it John, is about a young man who stole a car, drove it recklessly at high speed and endangered the life of his young son in the process, without any thought for his welfare, or indeed the child's future without a father.

Am I saying that? No, of course I am not, Sue.

I would love to side with you and Roy and say that compensation should not have been paid to the son. For precisely the reasons you are giving. But I could not see any logic for taking up that position.

Neither could anybody else who has looked deeply into this case. Are they all talking a load of tosh? What are your reasons for disagreeing with the police internal and external procedures?

Sadly that little boy would still have a father if the father had not stolen a car then tried to get away from the Police

So John You are really saying that members of the public if they were hit and killed by the car which was driven by a young man who should have known better don't matter.just his son..

What a load of tosh you spout.

The compensation was for Iestyn, the 7 year old son.

The police admitted they had broken the law.

Their own black box showed a speed within their vehicle in excess of 90mph. The driver had not been trained in high speed pursuits. He was asked to stand down.

The police all had written warnings for breaking procedures. They have procedures for catching speedsters which anyone can see on Police Camera Action. Those procedures do not allow for any police driver to chase somebody at speed. Quite sensibly, in my view. Yes, Gins, Daily Mail stirring once again :-( :-(

What has all this waffle about a young man stealing and driving at 97mph and endangering life got to do with ANY of that? You could argue that little Iestyn got very little compensation for losing a father.

last but one company i worked for one of the lads there got killed whilst in a stolen car that crashed
his girl friend tried to organise a collection for flowers but had to give up as few people were willing to give

Kay, stealing a car is a criminal offence,

failing to stop is another offence

Speeding is another offence

The fact that people make a conscious decision to do all three should not put the blame on the police in any way shape or form,

Far too many criminals use the driving like lunatics in order to deter the police because they no that if THEY the criminal make it too dangerous the police will let them go, even with pursuit training

If they had a clear message that the police would continue regardless then maybe most of these criminals would think twice before putting their foot down

We either want them to catch the criminals and enforce the law or we don't

Roy

The faster a car is being chased the faster the driver of a stolen car/vechile will go therefore not giving a thought to other users on the road in order to maintain a distance from the police,,,,,and persuing a car which is known will speed to the max the police play a part in causing reckless driving......

its a no win situation.

It doesn't matter who caused the accident, either the young man or the police.

The compensation shouldn't have been paid.

He would have still speeded even if the police had backed off as the young man could have started tormenting the police..

Have seen that done.


I was travelling back on the A64 on Thursday morning and my friend was driving at 60mph then all of a sudden a couple of men in a green car came speeding past us doing must have been well over a 100mph and within seconds they were out of sight.

We expected to see the car wrapped round a tree as the police wouldn't have been able to stop them.

Kay what's the police to do chase a stolen car or let it go?? Rose I agree police must go by the book otherwise we won't have a decent police force however did they cause the accident? I don't know

This was a young man, not a young lad, We have younger men giving their lives for our country

This young man chose to steal a car from his girlfriends mum without a thought for anyone else including his young son and the safety of other members of the public,

If pursuit training is the main problem then maybe all officers should have to pass such training to be a serving office, My personal opinion is had he stole my car I couldn't care less about the pursuit training because even with pursuit training my car would have still been a wreck when I got it back so all I want is for them to catch the criminal who stole it

Roy

'H&S experts are so entrenched in pessimism that they are willing to saw off every branch of a tree on which they are sitting, just to prove that it is not safe to sit on'. (D/M - MAG).

Thing is, if the police have treated a criminal in the 'wrong way', ie not gone 'by the book' in following procedure which, in not being trained for speed chases and ignoring orders, was in effect what they did...it is the same as them not following procedure or orders when dealing with a criminal in other circumstances...in the cells, in arrest procedure, in use of restraint etc...the rules HAVE to be followed for everyone, for us all to have confidence in the police I think?

Did the young driver up the speed as soon as he was being chased,?as often seen on Police Wars,,,, some stolen cars are just crusing along then blue lights flash and a chase begins,,,,,,

steal a car and take your chance that an accident may well happen.,chase a car thats guaranteed to cause the driver to speed and an accident may well happen,,,

many car thiefs are dead because of high chases.

Ann :-D