General Chat

Yes Gwynne believe it or not I am well educated too, history alone teaches us to be prepared however, as we neither know what is in the future it will be interesting to see what happens in the next 5 years.

I will bow out of this debate now as it seems I am being silly and cannot state my thoughts. I don't want a row and will not take part in one. We have all had our say .... just how a debate should be.

Gill

I don't need a glass ball, Gill, I'm an educated woman who reads a lot about world affairs, as I said, I prefer facts to uninformed speculation.

There were many warning voices before WW2 happened, they were just ignored. In the 1920s my grandfather told my father there would be another war.

I'll see you here in five years and we'll see who was right.

Gwynne

"people were saying similar after the 1st world war....ww2 hit them hard they were not ready by any means." -

And people said it would be a 20-year truce.

Gill you are being silly...if there is a third World war and like WW1 and 2 conscription is necessary, then everybody of the right age and health would be conscripted ( unless because of their place of biirth classed as an enemy alien of course )

" Molly coddling". asylum seekers...people living in fear?

No I don't think giving them sanctuary is 'mollycoddling'... letting them stay and contribute something to British society.... no I wouldn't call that molly coddling...

but be grateful I stopped myself saying what I really wanted to here...because I don't do 'molly coddling ' either!

Have you a glass ball Gwynne?

I remember my family saying people were saying similar after the 1st world war....ww2 hit them hard they were not ready by any means.

We none of us know what is out there ... near future or distant ... I stand by what I stated. I have my opinion to state in a debate just like everyone else.

Gill

Rita...Gill specifically asked for some statistics...she had none to offer of her own re the number of asylum seekers from Afghanistan here...but asked me how many of our troops came back in boxes...


I make no apologies for referring to an item in the press ... it tells a personal story, it puts a face to a nameless statistic...much as each poor soul in the forces who dies fighting is a name and a family and a life,,,not just a statistic Yes of course everyone can read websites...if they can google...but I thought it was actually rather relevant to put that info, and the previous statistics ...because of the amount of 'misinformation' taken as 'gospel' by readers of rubbish newspapers! ... read what you wish, ignore what you don't want to.


Any death of any young person fighting in any war anywhere is a tragedy... there are no two ways about that... and there have been plenty of people who have said we shouldn't be in all those wars I mentioned earlier....

would I discourage my son, yes... but if the army was his choice? would I be proud that he thought more of others than himself? ..oh yes...just as I am proud of any members of my family that served in other wars ( as they did) .

He is now a British subject Gill. No debate there.. He has skills that will and are invaluable. He may or may not choose to use them in the country of his birth. If he isn't cut out to be a soldier, then so be it. He will save lives other ways. It restores an equilibrium... one day, one of those soldiers might have a son or daughter, or grandchild, whose life will be saved by this young man. What goes around, comes around. That saying goes for good, as well as ill.

I am now off to enjoy some fresh air and sunshine as the rain has stopped

Gill,

That's exactly what I mean by wild speculation. WW3 is not going to break out so it's pointless speculating what one man will or will not do.

Gwynne

OK Rose, if ww3 was to break out within the next 5 years and the call ups go out to all able bodied brits what will he do then? move, surrender his citizenship perhaps or maybe the oldest trick in the book - shoot himself in the foot. Thank god for the british services, they will always go out and clean up other peoples wars even if they do get killed in the process.

My heart is sickened by all this molly coddling of asylum seekers when they are quite capable of being trained up to fight for 'their' country.

Gill

Rita,

What is the point of debate unless people produce evidence to back up their pointsof view? That's what debate is about, facts.

I am interested in the facts behind debates not wild speculation and emotional responses to untruths.

Kevin said there were thousands of terrorists walking the streets, he admitted he was wrong when Rose challenged him. Anyone can say anything, true or not, to back up an opinion but it's better to quote true evidence, isn't it?

Edit

As usual Daff has hit the nail on the head.

Gwynne

Think like I do, Rita? By acknowledging the right of others to make choices that will or could protect us, and put themselves in danger, even though we are crying with every fibre of our being, no, don't go, don't do it?

They believe that what they are doing now is helping, will help, and will give the Afghanis a democratic government that does not include the Taliban... the terrorist makers, the people who have cruelty and subjugation at their core. Who encourage and fund and train those who embrace martyrdom, suicide bombers, terrorists. Who have already been sent out and struck at Twin Towers, the heart of London, Madrid, and many other places.

That is who they are trying to stop. Not the Afghani people, just the Taliban.

You seem to think that people with opinions like mine do not care what happens to our soldiers, that only you and those who want *our boys* out, really do care... they were your words, not mine. That is what has made me cross and angry... I can understand where you are coming from, and why you believe some of the things you have read in the gutterpress... the media is swamped with it right now.

But to decide that my point of view is coloured by a lack of care is just not true.

But we DO care. I just understand in a very different way to you.

Yes so could many you british people do a lot for this country .... it's his country we are debating ....

Afghanistan where he should be doing his bit for his own family that has died in his homeland.

Gill

Because perhaps Gill, he is not mentally or physically equipped to fight...not every man or boy is you know... the men who go to fight there CHOOSE to ,there is no getting away from that simple fact...whether one believes it is right or wrong that our army is there.

... ...as you point out he is now a British citizen...maybe he feels he never wants to see the country of his birth again after what it did to his family? Maybe he is not out their fighting...but that does not mean he is not aware or supportive of those who are...I'm not out there either, nor are you, nor are millions of others in the UK..it doesn't mean one doesn't care...

That was one case...I posted it because there is this reliance on 'statistics', nameless numbers of 'asylum seekers', 'immigrants' whatever ... each one is a person with a different story, different fears, different hopes...different ideologies...not just 'them' .

Just as each soldier who goes is a person in their own right, and has a choice in their own right. Heroes for making the choice they do.

As a paediatrician, I think he will more than pay any debt you and others might think he owes.

He will dedicate his future to helping British children.

For that to be wasted, that skill and that gift, he may go back to his country of birth one day, too, and help those children there.

He will give back far more than he has been given.

People like him save lives.

OK I have read that news story, this young afghan has taken every opportunity and made good use of them, so why is it that now he is an adult british citizen he chooses not to fight with the other british citizens, some of which never got the opportunity to attend college.

I'm sorry as a child he deserved the help and guidance to make something of himself but as an adult he could at least make the effort to stand by our soldiers and fight this awful war.

Anyone who wants to read something NOT in the gutter press... a 'real' story not a nameless statistic

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jun/20/mohammad-razai-afghanistan-asylum-seekers

I hope so daff.Because we going to leave are children in a country they feel like a stranger in xx

any way its.Soul destroying to see 5 more young lads killed today 12 in 48 hours.I feel for there familys

This was a little bit bigger than a snippet... but this made interesting reading. I do believe that one day, they will be where they should be.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10551784

Love

Daff xxxxxx

Read the news more carefully, Kevin.... he is not erm, off the hook at the moment....... sorry, couldn't resist. He is one of those I was talking about... last week, while the Moat news dominated, there were a number of very very interesting little snippets in some of the newspapers. ;¬)) Softly softly, as I said.

Love

Daff xxxxx