Genealogy Chat

In 1901 a girl called Beatrice E Horstead is living in Rotherhithe, south London (Surrey) with my GGP Emily and Edward Horstead and family and is listed as "grandaughter" born Rotherhithe c1896.

My 80 year old aunt believes she was the daughter of Emily A Elinor, nee Horstead, the eldest daughter of GGP (not with them on census - but in Rotherhithe working at a pub on the 1901 as Emily Elinor, widow.

Aunt also tells me Beatrice was known to her as "Jenny" or "Ginny".

(I have found Emilys marriage to Fred 1891 St George in the East).

Fact is Emily wasnt widowed as hubby Fred Elinor is on the 1901 back in Suffolk/Norfolk border with a "housekeeper".(They seem to have met when Emily was working as a servant in Thetford, Norfolk in 1891). So please dont waste time on them.

But my query is on said Beatrice E. I cannot find a birth cert for a Beatrice Horstead or Elinor. There is a Mary Ann Ellinor born 1895 Rotherhithe but she is with another Ellinor family in 1901 so not the this Beatrice. (There was an Irene Elinor who was a daughter of Emily but died as a toddler). So where is Beatrice or Ginny's birth cert??? Any thoughts, help gratefully received.

For reference Emily Elinor went on to marry a George Cooper in 1916. I have also checked for any Beatrice Coopers in Rotherhithe, just in case! In fact Ive looked at every Beatrice E born St Olaves from 1895-1897 and I just cant see any surname that would fit.

Hi Heather,

Where were Fred and Emily married? Was Beatrice born there? And, if Fred and Emily met in Thetford, have you checked there?

Parish records might be another line of enquiry.

Victoria

Is she definitely Beatrice? Could she be Jenny or Jane or Virginia?

So ... I tied myself in knots PMing ... and here it is!

Maybe I'll take another kick at it ...

Do we know yet whether Beatrice/Jenny married, and whether she named a father when she did?

Not that the fathers people name when they marry should be taken as gospel, but always useful to know what they did say.

Emily's mother was Ethel. Might that be the "E"?

No luck with not ruling out any Beatrice Ethel / Ethel Beatrice born in the relevant period in St Saviour Southwark, of course.

One son was born in Dorking if that helps:

Births Dec 1893
Elinor Frederick John E Dorking 2a 151

Rose

I see Irene's death but where's her birth?

Rose

I've searched all the Elinors, Horsteds and even Beatrices born in that period....and nothing....this is a very difficult one!

Are there any other adult children who might be having children?
Joan

Hi guys, I think Ive thought of everything - I may have to try another way round - a very long long trawl through bmd for her marriage. She did marry to "someone called Towler" so its not going to be a fun job. I dont want to question my elderly auntie any more as she sighs and says, I get confused now, its so long ago.

The other adult girls are all at home and my aunt knew all of them - she lived with one of them as a child so knows that Beatrice wasnt theirs - hence her belief it was Emilys.

Many thanks anyway - one day it will come to light :)

Oh for reference - Irene:
BMD Register , BMD, Name: Elinor, Irene Caroline
Record Type: Deaths
Age at death: 3
Quarter: December
Year: 1895
District: St Olave Southwark
County: London Surrey
but THATS another mystery Rose - where is her birh registered? I hadnt even noticed that before - this research was done long ago when I first started out and I saw this death - Aunt says she remembers her aunts talking about "baby Irene" dying. Its a complete mystery????????

Beattie? Betty? I'm trying to think of alternative names that she may have used.

Well all I can say is that I spent a long time searching for a Beatrice birth and found her as Mary Ann Beatrice!

She married and died as Beatrice Mary Ann and in the one census she appears in she is Beatrice M......So I can only guess she did it to annoy me :)))))))

Must be something about Beatrices!!!!!!

Chris

Well, she should surely be registered as Beatrice as its not a name you adopt for snappiness is it - LOL. Cant make it out at all. Though I think the possible mother was a bit loopy apparently.

Hey, look what someone on FTF just turned up re Irene whose death we found but not birth!!

Births Mar 1892

Eleanor Irena Caroline St Olave 1d 314

Heather, are any of these your lot?

Births Jun 1893
Ellinor Thomas Henry St. Olave 1d 245

Births Jun 1895
Ellinor Mary Ann St. Olave 1d 259

Births Jun 1897
Ellinor Charlotte St. Olave 1d 240

Selena

Do you know if this is connected in anyway?

Marriages Dec 1915
Callaghan John Ellinor St.Olave 1d 597
Ellinor Emily E Callaghan St.Olave 1d 597

Hi Selena, afraid thats the other Ellinor family in Rotherhithe (1901) and as far as I could see not related to my Elinor lot. This Ellinor bloke was born Southwark whilst my chap was from Suffolk. Same goes for the kids on the births - those and several more are all belonging to this family.

Many thanks for the thought though :)

That's an Ellinor babe, not a bloke, in that marriage, Heather. ;)

(Ah, you meant the dad in those birth records, I get it.)

But isn't that marriage your Emily Horstead Elinor getting rehitched?

No fraid not. My Emily Ann Elizabeth married a George Cooper 1916

1 Elinor Emily A E Cooper St Olave.1d 322 Marriage 2 1916 .

My aunt knew him - said that he and Emily had been in a relationship for years before they married and had a business together. I guess they were waiting for a spouse to kick the bucket before they made it legal. Thats why Id also searched for a Beatrice Cooper :)

(Minor point but consistent, the other lot in Rotherhithe have two lls and this Suffolk bunch that Emily Ann married into keep to one l)

There is a Beatrice Maud Ellnor (no 'i') b Sep Q 1895 in Wisbech........

Peter