Genealogy Chat

hi margaret
ive gone back to 1570 on 1 side of my tree i was lucky i live in a 5 mile radius of where they all come from so have been able to go through recolds ive even got photos of grave stones and houses they came from good luck in your search trevor x

Heather,

forgive me, I don't mean to be rude or seem ungrateful but I've Googled, 'til I'm blue in the face.

I've found 'oodles' of Saywells and Sewells (both are family names) but finding the connection is the difficulty.

I have to work backwards and at the moment I'm stuck.

M. Steer

Just to add, on checking the parish registers, I have been lucky enough to find a mother's maiden and 2 dates of birth. I found the mother's maiden name on an entry in 1812 so well worth a look if you can
Willsy

Please bear in mind, that it wasn't only the wealthy that left wills, some wills may have only left sixpence to the church to pray for their soul, but its still a document and may have a clue as to relationships.

Also, by trying to build up a picture of all the people you have mentionned, but aren't able to determine exactly where they fit in, you may find enough information to eliminate them, rather than finding the information to prove the link, if you get my drift.

I think the people who have posted already are right, its not just BMD data that will lead you to the answers. If you have any idea of the estate/farm they worked for, there may be archive records available in the CRO which may list wage rolls etc and give more clues.

Oh Margaret, do a google search - Saywell family Croxton - it brings up some fab hits - Ive only glanced but certainly 17th century stuff there! eg:

Family History, Saywell Chart 1000 Robert Saywell and Anne E...
Family History, names included, Saywell, Aspinall, Wheaton ... married. 30th September 1695. St James. Croxton, Cambridgeshire: ROBERT SAYWELL


and there is one with Hearth Returns for 1674 with several Saywells and variations of the name.

Wills online:

either of these yours? (there are 4 pages with that name, but do check up variations, easily becomes Sewell)

Will of Frances Saywell, Wife of Willingham, Cambridgeshire 11 November 1704 PROB 11/479
Will of William Saywell, Doctor of Divinity and Master of New College of University of Cambridge, Cambridgeshire 03 July 1701 PROB 11/461

Libby,

He was from Croxton and his surname was Saywell.

M. Steer

Thanks Libby,

I was a Member of the CFHS for some time but it wasn't of very much help to me. Even FHS's have limited information available.

I'm sure I'll get there in the end.

M. Steer

Jill,

I think there may have been 'some money' way back.

During my research I've come across Academics & Clerics that may be related but they have been a century or more earlier. A lot can happen in that time.

It's difficult enough working backwards - I'd make a complete mess of it if I tried to work forwards.

M. Steer

I would check for wills - for both of the fathers if need be - there may be some clues in there. I know you say they are ag labs - but my OH is descended from a bunch of ag labs and a few generations back we have a farmer - and a farmer is likely to have left a will - you might find a farmer just a generation back from one or other and that might give some clues.

Keep at it.

Jill

p.s. I've also noticed that in parish records pre 1803 (or whenever they introduced standardised baptism forms) there was a lot more info on some of the records - depending on what the priest/clerk wanted to record. So it's always worth trying to see images of originals. Your local mormon church should be able to order films in. Slow job but worth it.

Yorkie,

Sadly he died a few months after the birth of his only child - a son and his name doesn't match-up with either of his, possible Grandfathers.

M. Steer

Ssorry for not replying sooner - had an early night last night.

Libby this particular family are from Cambridgeshire.
Another GR Member has visited the CRO and provided me with lots of invaluable information.

Heather, no I haven't checked Freereg yet but certainly will.

It's particularly frustrating as this is my direct line. Oh the joys of genealogy!

M. Steer

If you are lucky enough to have a family with connections to nobility, then it is likely that there are published pedigrees which go back to the time of the Norman Conquest or earlier.

My wife is connected to the Baggott family from the West Midlands, and they can trace their origins back to the 800's or thereabouts through the Earls of Stafford and their ancestors.

Margaret, even if the parents arent mentioned at a marriage, you will often find they are witnesses to the marriage or other rellies are, which will give you further clues..

In some of the Norfolk parish registers not only have I had both fathers names but their occupations and the occupation of the groom. It really does depend on the local clerk it seems. Even in my London ones - especially the baptisms Ive had complete addresses for the couple, the fathers occupation and the mothers name and maiden name.

So its always worth checking.

By the way, have you tried freereg site yet? Its not been going that long but they are adding thousands of transcripted entries every month. Norfolk is covered very well indeed and I recently found a marriage on there which I didnt believe had taken place - but it had, just not in the parish Id expected. In that particular case, the freereg site also gave the witnesses names which were the brides mother and father.(1775)

The only thing you can do, if possible, would be to save every reference to these people you can and hope that you can build up trees for each branch. That might eventually lead to a breakthrough.

I managed to build up a tree for a contact and we eventually worked out that we shared a common ancestor about 350 years ago. That did take me several years to sort out.

There are some branches we just can't unravel. It's frustrating but some evidence isn't there any more.

Sue

Sue, I don't 'dismiss' Ag. Labs.

I can't 'jump' a generation - even though I know the parents of both these men - I don't know the relationship between both Fathers. I don't think they were brothers but they may be cousins.

I'm 'up the Creek without a paddle'.

M. Steer

Sometimes there is no way to be sure.

It may help to go further back and look at earlier generations of the name. If you can find 2 "John Smiths" who were obviously cousins then you may find their mutual grandparents. Even if you have a generation you are uncertain about you could sort of jump over them to earlier ones. I've got one ancestor who could be one of two Elizabeths. They are nearly the same age and daughters of brothers. I can't work out which is mine but I know they had the same grandparents.

There just might be land records or apprentice records existing but it can take many hours of research in a records office to hunt through everything.

Many parish records have been lost or damaged but some families lived in well documented places and are then fairly easy to research back as far as parish records began.

If you are lucky enough to discover that your ag lab ancestors are in fact descendants of wealthier people that can lead to surprising results. My ag lab grandfather turned out to be a descendant of the Earls of Lincoln (generations of younger sons meant any money and lands had long since gone). Those Earls of Lincoln had fascinating ancestors with nobility and royalty from all over Europe.

So don't dismiss the ag labs........they may have the most interesting lines.

Sue
x

Chris,

Quite a list!

As far as I am aware, this particular branch of my family were C of E, Ag.Labs., with no money to leave and no criminal offences.

Nothing extraordinary about them, so how do I determine which is which?

M. Steer

Margaret

It would probably be worth your while looking at records beyond just parish registers.

I use the folowing as a crib sheet as to what is possibly available....I am sure other people can add more.

Deeds (from 11c)
Feet of Fines (from late 12c to early 19c)
Manor Court Rolls (from 13c)
Inquisition Post Mortem (from early 13c to early 17c)
Lay Subsidies (from early 13c to end of 17c)
Quarter Sessions (from mid/late 14c)
Probates (from mid/late 14c)
Chancery Proceedings (from late 14c to late 19c)
Visitations (from 16c to mid 17c)
Apprentices and Freemen (from 16c)
School and University Registers (from 16c)
Marriage Licences (from 16c)
Parish Registers (from early/mid 16c)
Bishops Transcripts (from late 16c to mid/late 19c)
Non Conformist Records (from 17c)
Jewish Records (from 17c)
Quaker Records (from mid 17c)
Poor Law (from mid 17c to mid 19c)
Roman Catholic Records (from mid/late 17c)
Commercial Directories (from late 17c)
Monumental Inscriptions (from 18c)
Customs and Excise (from 18c)
Poll Books (from 18c)
Newspapers (from 18c)
Military Records (from early/mid 18c to early 20c)
Naval Records (from early/mid 18c to early 20c)
Civil Registration (from September 1837)
Merchant Seaman Records (from mid to late 19c)
Early Census (1801 to 1831)
Census (from 1841)

Chris

Yorkie, thanks.

May I ask, have you seen a Parish Register, c.1767 for a Marriage with either the Bride's or Groom's Father mentioned?

I don't dispute anything you've have said.

M. Steer

Yorkie,

I haven't actually seen these Parish Registers.

A contact (who I believe to be very thorough) has checked them in the County Record Office.

I've also been told by a reliable source that pre-1837 Fathers names were not shown on Parish Registers. My own research would seem to confirm this.

M. Steer