Genealogy Chat

Is it possible for errors to be made in Paris Records?

I have John Roberts born c1828 in Hanley, Stoke on Trent.

In 1851 he is living in Chapel Street, Hanley with his wife Jane.

On his marriage certificate to Jane Malpas in 1850, his father is Joseph Robert, Collier.

In 1841 he is living in the same street as 1851, with his parents Joseph (a collier) and Maria.

BUT the only baptism entry I can find (in the original PR's and on the IGI) has his parents as Joseph (a collier) and JANE.

John is not the first or last child and the others I have found baptisms for have Maria as the mother, so it doesn't look like Joseph was married twice.

Any ideas?

Sam x

Forgot to add, I also have found a marriage for Joseph Roberts and Maria Ashwood but not one for Joseph to a Jane.

Sam x

Did Maria have two names?

Have you tracked down any possible marriages for Joseph? I would look for a Joseph and Maria marriage but also look for a Joseph and Jane marriage. It's possible that there are two couples involved here so you may need to find the "other" couple if that's the case, then you can be sure you're on the right lines.

Sounds a bit confusing though!

Or - order the film to the local LDS church of the baptisms to see what it says on there. I'm checking a film at the moment for St Mary Whitechapel and although some of the names are on IGI they are not all on there - plus the copy I'm looking at gives an address for the parents. That should help confirm or not whether you have the right lot.

Jill

my great grandmother was baptised Charlotte Elizabeth. On some census' she named herself as Elizabeth and on others Charlotte, went by the name Elizabeth.

Could it be Maria Jane? Giving her baptised name as Maria but going by Jane on the census?

Thanks Jill, I have looked at the actual parish records whih say John and Jane and the address is just given as Hanley, which isn't very helpful!

Denise, I've found a baptism for Maria Ashwood on the IGI but that doesn't mention a middle name, I think I will check the original record for that and see what it says.

Thanks
Sam x

Yes, it is possible - I have two brothers (well several actually) in the late 18th century and two of them married Sarahs in the same village - I know one of the baptisms should be for Jonas and Sarah but its entered as Thomas and Sarah. I guess everyone is human and its possible to get siblings confused in country villages.

LOL, I forgot - a wilder mistake this one - but one of the famous 13 commandments entries -

I had a Edmond and Mary who married in the late 17th century and went along to baptise their daughter - the happy parents names were entered as Rosamond and Mary - LOL.

Heather

The first ever record of a Civil Partnership???

LOL

Chris

I find this difficult to understand.
1841
Ann Roberts 7
Edward Roberts 1
John Roberts 13
Joseph Roberts 35
Joseph Roberts 9
Maria Roberts 35
Thomas Roberts 4
William Roberts 15

Where are the christening records for ALL of these children?
Much more likely that Joseph and Jane are a different couple.

Human error is always possible.

The census sheets can be wrong too. For some strange reason my great grandmother Ellen is down as Claire on the 1901 census. It is definitely the right woman with right family and right birthplace. All earlier records were correct and she lived long enough to be in photos with me as a baby.
I checked the original and it isn't a transcription error so whoever took the census must have lost concentration or something.

Parish records (unlike census sheets which are copies) are original records but Bishops' transcripts can sometimes differ due to human error. If the original records have been lost and there are only transcripts left then there are even more chances of mistakes having been made.

Sue

Jim you are confusing me now, lol!

That John Roberts listed is mine but as I say, the only baptism I can find is for John son of Joseph and Jane. I have the baptism for William (born before John) and also Ann and Thomas (born after) and all have Joseph and Maria as parents.

I can't find a baptism for a John son of Joseph and Maria, I can't find a Joseph and Jane on a census and I can't find a marriage for a Joseph and Jane.

That's why I thought it might be an error

Sue, I think they are BT's. A large chunk of the original parish records were destroyed during the Chartist Riots in 1842.

Sam x

Sam
The point is Joseph and Maria have six children (at least) and I cannot find all their christenings.If John was the only one missing then I could understand your theory.

Sam not sure if this helps or hinders?

JOSEPH ROBERTS

Spouse: JANE HITCHENOR Family
Marriage: 27 JAN 1823 Rugeley, Stafford, England


My James William John becomes just William on a census. He married a Jane Louisa who is just Louisa on one of the baptisms of their 3 children. It was very hard to find and track them.

Could she have been Maria Jane, perhaps the priest who did the baptism only heard her second name.

Selena

John's parents have to be Joseph and Maria from 1851 census.
You have an elder brother with parents Joseph and Maria and a younger brother and sister with parents Joseph and Maria.
Seems to me that it is an error on the part of the vicar - they did make them being only human.
I have a few instances of errors in the parish registers.

Andy

My gt grandfather John Woodhead was b in 1837. I know from the 1851 census that his parents were william and Maryan (?) and that he had a sister Elizabeth b about 1840, a Sarah A about 1843, brother George about 1845, and Lot about 1847.
The parish records (film, not transcript) has the baptisms of all, with date of birth in the margin.
John, b Nov 1837, bapt Apr 1838.
Lot, b Nov 1846. bapt Jan 1847
Elizabeth b Oct '39 bapt 4 Apr 1847
Sarah Ann b Ap '42 bapt 4 Apr 1847
George b Aug '44 bapt 4 Apr 1847

The parents for John and Lot are given as William and Maria, but for the last 3 as John and Maria. I think the person who wrote up the record got confused over who the father was. Perhaps the father was absent and the oldest son John was standing in for him.

Re couples with the same names, in Dilhorne in Staffs, there were 2 lots of Thomas and Elizabeth Bettany about the same time. Makes it difficult to sort out the children, but I think we have it sorted.

When it comes to completely wrong first names in the census records, always look a few lines up or down - I bet youll find someone with that first name there. Its human error, someone tired writing out these names in an office, copying it from someone elses records probably by candlelight or gas light and then they look up look back and down goes the wrong name. Im always amazed so many are right - they didnt know wed be scrutinising their work hundreds of years later. I noticed this some years back with a very unusual first name that my rellie had been given - I looked at the image and there was a woman with that very unusual first name in the previous household. Since then I always check.