Genealogy Chat

Ironing what's that ???
I'm retired and there are still not enough hours in the day................

Sorry Val. Me and my big ideas.

I know what you mean though. I work full time and belong to a writing group and a reading group and I still need a social life and someone has to do the ironing!

Is that why I'm tired a lot of the time do you think?!!

Thanks Jill go enough to do already Lol

I also run a dolls house club !!!

Sounds like a perfect excuse to do a mini One Name Study on the Merthyr bunch. In doing that (be careful it's very addictive) you'll sort your lot out in the process.

Jill

Hi Jill ,
Yes I know what you mean . On my oh side I had the family bible back to1721 to help me and the no of edmunds Georges and anns in that family that I had to sort though on the census returns was unbelievable. But I did it and was very pleased with myself.

There is an excellent site on Jarmans from Llanidloes where a lot of work has been done on the families born there. The problem is I cannot tie into any of them as my lot moved to Merthyr and that branch is undocumented. I would like to sort it if only to complete the family that left Llanidloes for Merthyr and so complete the overall picture.

Hi Val

I had to unravel three George MOCOCKs once. All born about 1860 give or take a year.

I wrote down the details I knew for each of them - and made notes on those little post-it notes.

Then did a rough time line on a large-ish bit of paper and moved my post-it notes around.

It meant going through census returns trying to find each of them so that I could work out which one was mine - by eliminating the other two. It was a bit of a pain but worth it in the end.

In my case well worth it as I'm now doing a One Name Study on Mocock so all the info was handy - but in your case you might be able to eliminate at least one of your confusing bits.

I know it seems a bit of a hassle gathering more info but it will help it make sense when you start working them out by families.

Try it.

Jill

Hi Jill, The worst part of this is both Gt grandparents were I thought married twice each, if you know what I mean. Thomas jnr had a son before he married my gt grandmother, I cannot find his first marriage and he says on marriage cert that he was a batchelor when he married my gt gran. I suppose I will have to get that childs birth cert to see if he is named as father.
That won't help with his parents though, I feel like I am going round in circles. I have so many census returns for Thomas and the only one I know for sure is right is 1901. Even the 1891 where he says he is "married " I now disbelieve !!!

Hi Val

Take the information you do know - marriage cert, later censuses (even if the ages vary a bit) and work out the possible time span for his birth. If one piece of the picture is wildly out and the rest "fits" I would be inclined to go with the majority intially.

Just fingers crossed that when they baptised your lot they weren't all done on the same day - one lot in my tree were and their ages ranged from a few months to 17 years! Helpful bunch!

If you're looking at baptisms look for known siblings and don't forget to make a note of any of the same surname that you come across - they may be related somewhere!

Good luck.

Jill

Hi Jill, Thanks for replying, and your suggestions.

I think I will take a trip to the newtown reg office and see if I can get them to look. I now know that the 1861 cannot be him as now know his father's name is Thomas ( although I am begining to doubt that)

I appreciate you looking at this and your comments. Good luck with your research

Thanks Val

OK - Let's try this.

It's more likely that his age is accurate when very young. So if the child aged 2 in 1861 is your man then the two year time span in which he could have been born is worked out as follows:

If he was born the day before - or the day after the date of the 1861 census (7th April) - then his birthdate is somewhere between 8 April 1858 and 6 April 1860.

You could then write to the GRO giving his details - including who his father is (or might be) and ask them to do a search. They will search up to 3 years. So if they were to search 18 months each side of 7 April 1859 that will cover both of the above dates. This does take longer than a normal application - about 15 days or so.

If he's there then they will find him. If not, then you're in the same position as me with my grandfather and you are looking at - (a) parents not married and all children under unknown woman's surname (b) trawling through parish records (mine are at the LMA) in the hopes of spotting several children whose ages you (roughly) know and first names you know that all have the same (unknown as yet) surname.

I do understand and I do sympathise. I'm in the same boat.

But try the 3 year GRO search first.

Jill

n
For some advice what to do next please

Thanks Reg for that but still cannot tie him down on the census. I don't know how to tie his birth down to order a cert. I thought getting marriage cert would help, but it hasn't. I have a lot of Thomas's but nothing adds up. No clues as to his family, and cannot tie his mother and father together so if it was an illegitimite birth how can I find his mother ?
I have traced various thomas's through the census and am still none the wiser.

A sawyer operates a saw............usually with wood or stone...........check online dictionary for full and accurate definition.

Reg

Must go to bed thank you all for your help, don't know how I can tie him down. There are so many Jarman families in Llanidloes. I am grey already so can't get any greyer Lol

Will look at this again tomorrow , thanks again Val

Is that the one jim that says " dumb since birth " because I ruled him out. Have a living relative of his (Thomas's )second wife and she would have known this and she never mentioned it and I think she would have.

1871 Wales Census
about Thomas Jarman
Name: Thomas Jarman
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Grandson of Ann Ashton
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanidloes, Montgomeryshire, Wales

Kate His father's occ was a sawyer ??? Is that anything to do with mining ?He would have also been born 1858 and his occ is wrong he states mason on marriage cert

Jim what relation were the thomas's on the 61 census to ann ashton please.

There is this one (mistranslated as Farman on Ancestry but with a note to say it could be Jarman - the image certainly looks like Jarman):

1871 Wales - Allt Goch, Trefeglwys, Montgomeryshire

Thomas Jarman Head 36 Lead ore miner b. Trefeglwys, Montgomeryshire
Mary Jarman Wife 37 miners wife b. Trefeglwys, Montgomeryshire
Thomas Jarman Son 13 tailors apprentice b. Trefeglwys, Montgomeryshire
Joseph G Jarman Son 11m miners son b. Llandinam Montgomeryshire
William Jarmon Son 3 miners son b. Aberdare Glamorganshire
Benjamin Griffiths Nephew 3 butlers son b. Trefeglwys, Montgomeryshire

Trefeglwys is in the subregistration district of Lower Llanidloes, if that's any help.

.....

Ten years before, the same family, I think. All born in Gyntrefnant, this time.

Llanrygwyn (?), Glyntrefnant, Montgomeryshire

Thomas Jarman 26 Head Mar Ag labourer
Mary Jarman 27 Wife Ag labourer wife
Thomas Jarman 3

older but?
1871 Wales Census
about Ann Ashton
Name: Ann Ashton
Age: 64
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1807
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Llanidloes, Montgomeryshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Llanidloes
County/Island: Montgomeryshire
Country: Wales

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Newtown
Sub-registration district: Lower Llanidloes
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 17
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Ashton 64
John Ashton 78
Mary Ashton 80
Thomas Chapman 29
Thomas Jarman 10
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
1861 Wales Census
about Ann Ashton
Name: Ann Ashton
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1808
Relation: Sister-in-law
Gender: Female
Where born: Llanidloes, Montgomeryshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Manledd
County/Island: Montgomeryshire
Country: Wales

Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Newtown
Sub-registration district: Lower Llanidloes
ED, institution, or vessel: 6a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 19
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Ashton 53
Edward Ashton 15
John Ashton 61
Mary Ashton 63
Richard Ashton 24
Richard Ashton 3
Thomas Davies 18
John Evans 2
Mary Evans 20
Ann Jerman 3days
Elizabeth Jerman 21
Thomas Jerman 26
Thomas Jerman 1