Genealogy Chat

I sent away for the certificate for the 2nd marriage for the sister of my granddad, it arrived today. BUT, I now have a new set of problems that I hope someone can help me find my way through.

Place, Bootle, Lancs. (Correct)

Bride is MARY ELLEN CARNEY, widow, (correct)

Age, 24, (wrong, she would have been at least 34, otherwise she would have been 9 when her son was born in 1896)

Groom, age 34, (sounds ok to me)

Brides fathers name, JOHN ROBERTS, deceased, (Correct)


Mary Ellen had a brother William Roberts and her mothers name was Mary.

Witnesses at the marriage were, WILLIAM ROBERTS AND MARY ROBERTS. This sounded good !!!! BUT..

Mary Roberts married again in May 1894 and her new married name was Massie....So if this is my Mary Ellen why would her mother call herself by her first married name??????

I soooo want this to be "my" Mary Ellen, but am I barking up the wrong tree even though there are so many for`s???

A little post it note.....Robert Croston is listed in the 1901 census as a "Confectioner/baker"...Mary Ellen was living with her mother and step-father in 1901 and her step-father was a "Master Baker".


Kathlyn

Was there an actual address on the certificate? just wondered if that would help.

Gail.

The addresses on the marriage cert are:-

Mary Ellen is living at 242 Marsh Lane, Bootle and Robert is living at 4 Bullers Terrace.

Just had a look at the 1901 census for Mary Ellen and the Massie address and it is.......4 Bullers Terrace. Do I have a bingo !!!!

But I would still like to know why Mary Ellen`s age is 10 years out and her mother used her 1st marriage name.

Have a look at my added post it note Gail.

Kathlyn

Jolly sailor

Mary Ellen was born

Mary Ellen Roberts, she married a John Carney and was widowed, then, if this is the correct marriage cert. married a Robert Croston.

Kathlyn

Well with that address it would be a bit of a coincidence if it was the wrong one...... could it just be a mistake for her age on the marriage cert do you think.

Gail. x

It's just a mistake by the registrar. Easy enough to write 24 instead of 34. Mother gave her previous married name out of habit.

Do you know what the odds are of 2 Mary Ellens with mother Mary, father John, brother William and both living at the same address would be?............lol

You've got the right cert!!!!!



Deb:)

I agree, just looked at the census and so on and it all ties up very nicely.

Gail. x

Hi Gail,

The vicar could have had a "bevvy" and was feeling a little too generous as far as the brides age is concerned, so we can accept that "mistake".

But I am still perplexed as to why Mary Ellen's mother used her first married name as a witness to the marriage.

I am pretty well convinced this is my Mary Ellen, but by talking about it saw other places I could check on. For instance....the 1901 census for the addresses.

Kathlyn

Thank you all for your thoughts. I am 99.9999999% certain this is the correct cert.

Kathlyn

I think Jolly Sailor made a good point that we cannot know for sure that that was her mother, could have been any relation. Or as Deb said, if it was her Mother she maybe thought she had to sign with the 'correct surname'.

The only other thing I can suggest is that if who you think was the mother possibly signed on her own or other children's marriage certificates is to compare the signature.

Gail. x

Don't know as that last bit made much sense, but what I meant was if you have Mary Roberts marriage certificate to Mr Massie then can you compare the signatures/handwriting

Gail. x

The signature on Mary Ellens first and second marriage cert is in the handwriting of who ever completed the whole of the certificate. The same for Mary Ellens mothers marriage cert.

I am assuming that Mary Ellen, her brother and mother were illiterate and were unable to sign their names.

As for the siblings of Mary Ellen, one brother was my grandfather, John, and he did not marry until 1898 in London, and his mother did not attend the wedding. The other brother of Mary Ellen was William and he never married.

Kathlyn

Jolly Sailor,

Ohhhh poooooooh.

I am now looking for any children this marriage may have produced so maybe that will give me a definite yes or no. Thanks for all your input, it is very much appreciated.

Kathlyn

That is a shame if they did make their mark.

IF they got married in a church and IF the parish records have been deposited in the local archives you can see the original marriage certificates there -usually scanned onto fiche or film. (You do have to know the church/parish or it can be like looking for a needle in a haystack.)

I am lucky in that my mother's family came from the county that I live in so I have managed to obtain quite a few copies of original marriage certificates for about 50p by going to the local archives.

Gail. x

Hi Gail,

Thanks for that bit of info. I do have the name of the church etc. As the church is in Liverpool and I live in Essex a visit is out of the question, but i will get in touch with the Liverpool RO and see if they can help.

Thanks again,

Kathlyn