Genealogy Chat

Many thanks to Tracey and Tony for their help so far on this string. I am still trying to find a record of the Birth of William Elliff for 1853, there seems to be nothing in the parish records at either St John the Baptist or St Mathews, has anyone any other ideas of parishes in Croydon i can look into. I know Williams father was John from his wedding certificate (1876), and can find William and his family in the 1881 thru to 1901 census, i can't find him on FreeBMD so have no idea of mothers first name, maiden name, or his date of birth. Also i believe he had a sister Elizabeth who married a Stephen Killick by the time of the 1881, and would like to know more about her. All ideas very welcome, no matter how small. Yvette

Hi Max Thanks for the reply, but its ok i am not disappointed by your answer, i am not too worried about finding his mothers maiden name, just her christian name, and of course the dates of birth and address. Its a bit of a long winded story, as genealogy ones often are lol, i think i know who his parents might be, but as i cannot find a record of Williams birth anywhere i am only guessing at this point and getting SO desperate to know one way or the other as if i am correct i have a whole load of relatives to link him to. Anyway, back to headbutting my brickwall for now.......... Yvette

Hi Yvette, There are many more churches in Croydon, suggest you look up www.croydonweb.com/links/churches.html. St. John the Baptist is the parish church. I would suggest that you have another look. I have found a William Robert Eliffe in the I.G.I b.14.12.1851 and baptised 7.3.1852 at St. John the Baptist. There are so many different spellings of this name so bearing this in mind, go back and try again for his birth certificate, covering the last quarter of 1851 and the whole of 1852. Happy hunting. Mary Beckett There is also a William Elliff in the 1881 Census at Cobden Rd, 3 Holmview with wife Alice and daughter Annie. RG11 Piece/Folio 0819/52. Page 33 The full web page for the Croydon Churches does not show, so I will print it again. www.croydonweb.com/links/churches.html I am sorry but it seems that they will not let me give you the full web page. Perhaps someone could explain why.

Hi Yvette,The baptism records for St Mathew have a William Robert Elliff and a Sarah Elliff both on 7 Feb 1852,his date of birth is given as 14 Dec 1851 and hers as 18 October 1849.Parents are down as John and Mary Elliff.Hope this is of use to you,Regards Tony.

Mary Thanks for your help, i will have a good look at the Croydon site. I am sure that the William Robert Elliffe you found is not my man, as i have followed his family through but thanks anyway. As for the William and Alice on the 1881, yes thats my family and the william i am trying to find a birth for. I will keep digging. Tony Thanks for your reply also, I had seen a baptism for William and Sarah on the LDS site but wasnt aware of the dates of birth so thanks for that, it may be my William as the one i am looking into was born 1853, so its close, and had a father John, which also fits, trouble is i cant work out why it would be this one for other reasons. In 1881 and 1891 my William shared the same house as a John Elliff and their respective families. John was 6 years older than William and had a father JOhn....but his mother was Sarah. I am trying to find if John and William are brothers, but getting nowhere fast. Just more questions. Will look into the William you found for me anyway, just in case. Thanks again Yvette

Hi Yvette, Was your William married to a lady called Alice Streeter? I've found a William and Alice married 25 Dec 1876 in Croydon, Surrey. If they are yours, William's father was John Elliff and Alice's father was William Streeter. William was 24 at time of marriage and Alice was 22. It was at St John the Baptist. Still not been able to find a birth for him though! Good luck. Tracey, Bolton

Hi Yvette, Just to confuse things further - if your William and John were brothers (and it seems they both have the same father being John) they also married sisters! I've found a John Elliff married to an Emma Streeter on the 1 July 1878 in Croydon, St John the Baptist. Fathers are same as before. John was 32 at time of marriage and Emma was 30. Hope some of this is of use to you!! Tracey, Bolton Tell me to shut up if i'm rambling but, - I've also found a marriage for a John Elliff on 29 Nov 1841 in Croydon, St John the Baptist to a Sarah Adams. I don't know if these are your Williams parents but John's father was actually called William too and Sarah's was called Job

Hi Tracey Yes my William is the one married to Alice Streeter, where did you find all the info on them as i only found out the wedding date and fathers names today when i got a copy of their wedding certificate? I had noticed a possible link with Emma Streeter, but wasnt 100% sure on it, and as for John Elliff and Sarah Adams, yes i am aware of them as i found them on the LDS site 18 months ago when i started looking into the Elliff name. I know they had 4 children, Job, Ann, John and Edward, but was hoping that William was a son also , just not registered on the LDS site, as he is only 3 years younger than Edward. As i cant find a birth record for William i am struggling to prove the link just now, and would be really grateful for anything you could find that will show either way. One thing i noticed on the wedding certificate was a witness called Eliza Elliff, not sure where she comes from, any ideas? Also any other dates of birth/death /marriages for any of teh above names would be welcome. Thanks Very much for all your help so far. Yvette by the way, i have a possible family link that may answer the Eliza Elliff witness......peny just dropped. In 1881 John Elliff was head of house at Dickinson Lane, Croydon, aged 74, Widowed, living with son in law Stephen Killick, daughter Elizabeth Killick and grandsons Albert and Arthur...........what do you think?

Hi Yvette, What a family you have here! They don't like to do things by half do they! I think your witness is probably his sister? Elizabeth Elliff. She did marry a Stephen Killick on 25 Dec 1878 at St John the Baptist , her father John, his father Richard. She was 21 and he was 22. But- to confuse things further more, Edward Elliff (we think William's brother) also married a Streeter by the name of Eliza on 25 Dec 1872 so she also could have been the witness. They seem to like to keep it in the family don't they, with a lot of christmas day weddings! I'll keep looking further for you. By the way i'm getting this info from the VRI. Tracey, Bolton

Tracey.........what can i say, these are the esy side of the tree!!!!! wait til i start on my grandmothers side, lol. 3 sisters married 3 brothers....its a bit odd really, mind you it explains the later editions in the line if its true, lol. Can you check on your records whether Alice, Emma and Eliza Streeter all had the same father? If only i could find a birth for William or Eliza(beth) Elliff i would know if they were brother and sister to John, i am wondering though if maybe they were cousins, and its the Streeter girls who were all the same family? I guess on the bright side if they are all from the same 2 sets of parents it will save time filling in the family tree!!! lolol. By the way your VRI, is it a later version than the 1998? as i had a lookup done on that some time ago and was told nothing came up. If so was it very expensive ? Sorry for all the questions! Regards Yvette

Well that's me totally confused!! Maggy, West Yorkshire

Maggy You and me both.........you wouldnt believe the headache this has given me, lol. Yvette

Tracey I think i have found a death reference for John Elliff senior. Could you please check it for me on your VRI to see what other details (if any) you can find? John Elliff Died December quarter of 1888, aged 82, District Croydon, Volume 2a P122. Thankyou Yvette

Yvette, According to the marriage records, all three Streeter girls had the same father - William. All the Elliff boys had the same father - John, even Elizabeth's father was John. It's tricky but if William and Eliza were cousins to John & co what would be the chances of both their fathers being called John (as their fathers would have to be brothers wouldn't they?). I can't find any births for the Elliffs - only a couple for William and John's kids which i think you already know about from the census. There are no death records on the VRI, only birth and marriage. The one i've got is the second edition, the later one, and i got it from LDS for £22.95. Its good value for money! Tracey.

Morning Tracey Well it is certainly a talking point, 3 sisters married to 3 brothers, my husband asded if we can find 4 more so we can have our own version of 7brides for 7 brothers, lol. I see your point about the cousins thing. Obvious really but you cant always see things when you are in the middle of it. I guess i was just trying to find another explanation before i got too carried away with William being the son of John and Sarah as its what i have been hoping for. The VRI sounds like a good idea, talking nicely to husband now for Christmas......... I guess i will have to order the death certificate for John, not sure if it will tell me anything to clear things up any more, but worth a look at least. Thanks again for all your help. Best Wishes Yvette By the way , i am aware of all John and Emma and William and Alices children, from several references, Williams daughter Edith was my g grandmother, she died in 1984 and although i never met her, she was a very real part of my family identity, hence the desperation to find all i can on her family.

Hello again,Also found at St Mathew bap's Edward elliff 29 12 1850,Mary 8 8 1847,Job25 9 1842, John 2 5 1847,Charlotte 23 7 1854, all with parents John and Sarah.Regards,Tony.

Tony Thats great news, i was aware of Job, Edward and John, but Mary and Charlotte are news to me, and makes it even more likely that William and Elizabeth are related as the dates all work. If you find anything else on the Elliff saga i would be most grateful, no matter how small. Regards Yvette

Tony.....just noticed Mary and John were baptised 3 months apart, i assume if they were twins they would have been baptised together, is it more likely that Mary is older but not baptised until a later date for some reason? As i know for sure John was born and bapstised in 1847. Regards Yvette

Ok slight hiccup with Mary and Charlotte, having looked them up on the LDS site i have found christening details at St John the Baptist, with the same dates as given by Tony, but it show parents as George and Mary Elliff. Which one do i take as correct? Yvette

Hi Yvette,Apologies,got your rellies mixed up,there are three families,cousins I'd guess,yours is John and Mary they have Sarah Anne born 18-10-1849 bap 7-3-1852,William Robert,born14-12-1851,bap7-3-1852.Then we come to the other John and Sarah,they have Job, bap 25-9-1842,John bap 2-5-1847 and Edward 29-12-1850.Then we come to George Elliff and Mary,they have Mary bap8-8-1847 and Charlotte bap 23-7-1854. Just to add to your confusion here's a couple of earlier marriages,William Elliff to Elizabeth Hollamby on 29-4-1805 and James Elliff to Martha Scriven on 4-10-1808.They had Ann born 15-6-1809,bap 15-7-1809 also found rebecca bap 28-7-1817 but no parents shown! These are all at St John the Baptist,Croydon.Have fun with this lot,Regards,Tony.