Genealogy Chat

Hi Linda, I was having the same problem as you with the county boundries and a very nice person on GC gave me this site address with area maps and counties as they were in mid 1800`s. I think its very helpful. http://www(.)old-maps(.)co(.)uk/ Take out the brackets. Julie

Linda Have you found out where Josephs mother came from.I have a Gr grandmother and another relative who seem to have gone back to home to give birth. Ann

Jeanette Thanks I had not thought of that. I was working on the fact Middlesex was most of London and possibly the Middlesex as exist nowadays. I went to Old Maps and you are right, Watford Middlesex. Ann

Wasn't there a boundry change that involved Middlesex and Hertfordshire? Could Walford be Watford? Just a thought but my geography is terible so I don't know if this is possible. Jeanette

Thank you so much everyone! I'll let you know when I have a success story to share! Just to remind you: Grandfather - James Dutton born 1879 St Mary Cray, Kent Great Grandfather - Joseph Dutton born c. 1856 Middlesex, London Great Great Grandfather - William Dutton born c. 1832 St Pauls Cray, Kent On the 1881 census William (and only his wife, Sarah) are listed as living at 1 Clara Place, Snodland, Kent and his occupation is Foreman, Paperworks. On the 1881 census Joseph's name is listed as DALTON and his birthplace is given as London, Middlesex. He is aged 25 and his occupation is given as Work in Paper Mill. Living with him are his wife Sarah, aged 22, and sons Joseph, aged 4, and James, aged 2. The family are living in Lower Road, Orpington, Kent. On Joseph and Sarah's wedding certificate in 1876 their ages are given as 20 and 18 and their addresses as simply St Mary Cray. They were married in Bromley Baptist Church, Kent. When James was born in 1879, they were living in Henrietta Cottages, St Mary Cray. On the 1901 census, I can find no trace of William and Sarah. in 1901, Joseph and Sarah are living at 1 River Cottage, St Pauls Cray Entire with their children James (22), Arthur (15), Elsie (13), Bessie (10), Charles (4) and Ernest (1). Again Joseph's birthplace is given as Middlesex, London. By this time, their eldest son, Joseph, is married to Helenor (Eleanor?) and living at St Paul's Cray. Sorry to have gone on! However, the challenge is now yours... In case you've lost the plot - I'm trying to locate the birth details for Joseph and William so that I can get their birth certificates! THANKS!

Linda What is the place of birth listed as on 1891 and 1901 census. Does it alos just say London, Middlesex ?

Thanks,I live less than 2 miles from Old Ford. I had not considered it, could be it with a flourish on the O. That might bring in Mile End, Bow and a few other reg districts. The nearest possible birth I have found was one in Pancras but cannot match up a place, the right year, but there are a few others I can try. As we cannot find a marriage reg we cannot rely on parents names. Of to freebmd after following some kind persons way of getting passed my Norton firewall without having to completely disable it. Many thanks Ann

Ann It wouldn't be Old Ford which was in Bow, Middlesex would it? Some of my ancestors come from that part of London. It may have been written Oldford... Kathy

Middlesex also covered the whole of what is now the London Borough of Tower Hamlets - i.e., Bethnal Green, Bow, Stepney, Whitechapel, Mile End, etc - which is now East London. Kathy

Hi Linda I am having the same trouble. A gr Grandad Robert Cook/e living in Middlesex but he has a common name so have too much choice. On the 1891 census there is a place but illegible, actually looks like Walford but I am sure Eastenders does not go back that far. I cannot find a place starting with W or H and ending in ford in the London area. If anybody has any ideas please let me know. Ann

Joseph and Sarah married in Bromley in 1876. Joseph's age is given as 20 years and Sarah's as 18.

On Joseph & Sarah's marriage cert, what are their ages, and does it show where they were living at time of marriage? Jan.

Thanks guys! Middlesex certainly did encompass a huge area, apparently stretching from west to east London. Which, of course, means that I'm searching for a needle in a hay stack! It's a shame my ggrandfather, when census time came around, didn't say he was born in Whitechapel, or West Drayton, or... instead of just Middlesex, London!!

If I recall correctly: Middlesex covered virtually the whole of north London, right down to the City limits but disappeared as an administrative County when the Greater London Council was created.

Many thanks, Fiona. I'll give it a try!

I did a search on 1837online under the year 1856 and found a number of Joseph Dutton's. However one was born in West Drayton which is definitely covered by Middlesex, London. It is near Heathrow Airport. details are as follows Apr - Jun quarter in 1856 Joseph Dutton born in West Drayton ref: vol. 6a page 712 Hope this is the one but i guess you wont know unless you order the certificate. Fiona

Hi Fiona Sadly not, that's why I need to find his birth details. I know Joseph DUTTON married Sarah BEADLE in 1876 (I have their marriage certificate). His father's name was William DUTTON (born c.1832 - I can't find his birth either!) and I think he was also married to someone called Sarah. Joseph and Sarah had a son called James, who was my grandfather. The family all eventually ended up in the Bromley/St Mary Cray/Orpington area of Kent... but I can't find any trace of any DUTTONs in the London/Middlesex area... AAAaaaGGGgggHHHhhh!

Have you got a full date of birth for him and his mothers maiden name. Fiona

I live in Middlesex, which in my case is North London. Middlesex covers quite a large area. Fiona

I'm having real trouble tracking down my ggrandfather's birth, Joseph DUTTON. On the 1881 census his birth place is listed as 'Middlesex, London'. Has anyone any idea what geographic area this might have been c.1856?