Genealogy Chat

I wanted to let this thread drop and Kathryn, I apologise for my previous slur. (was in a bad mood but that’s no excuse) . However I have since discovered, on the SOG site that the 1841 and 1851 censuses were released in 1912 with no apparent problems. Bob

I personally find the 100-year closure period pointless, and would welcome an early release of 1911 census, why is it information of long since desceased relatives is locked away, yet I can do an online 2001/2002 Electoral Roll search at www.b4usearch(.)co(.)uk and get peoples address and telephone numbers who are alive and kicking, who gave them permission to publish such info, this could have far more potential dangerous consequences than any early release of 1911 census will ever have.

This will be my final post on this, as we're clearly going around in circles (and my apologies for hijacking this thread!). I copied one paragraph (out of four) from the Parliamentary website to show that this has already been discussed and rejected, and the reasons for the decision. I am uncertain as to which bits you are refering to as 'factually incorrect', but if this is the official Parliamentary website and the quote came from online transcripts of the Parliament discussions. Perhaps you should contact the MPs concerned and correct them? All I can say is that the PRO was specifically mentioned in the 1993 Freedom of Information Act and early-release was discussed again in 1998. The government is fully aware of the requests, and have decided not to grant them. We can argue the whys and wherefores for as long as you wish, but what good will it do? Neither of us are responsible in the end. This basically boils down to whether or not people agree with the 100 year closure rule, and personally I have no problems with it. I don't feel oppressed by the state because I can't access a census from 90 years ago. Nor do I feel threatened by the 30 and 50 year closures on other types of information. Would this census help with my genealogical research? Probably not. I am fortunate in that several relatives lived to be almost 100 and were mentally alert enough to provide a wealth of information. Even without such assistance, 1901 is only three generations back, and it's by no means impossible to get back that far without the 1911 census. I remain unconvinced that early release is a vital necessity for genealogical research. You can object all you want to my accessing 'your' records on 1901 (I had no idea you were on it!), but after 100 years all info must become freely available, as decreed in another Act. The same is not the case after 90 years There are fewer potential pitfalls if you just wait a century. Of course it would be theoretically possible to get an early release, if you could persuade Parliament it was important enough to make an exception, and if you're into bureacracy. Finally, may I say that I'm quite disappointed that you resorted to name-calling.

Kathyn, it would be nice if you could answer a question with out pasting and copying , from the opinions of other people.( which are factually incorrect) The fact is that that the 1911 can be released with no problem, ( apart from people like you) . If you believe in state secrecy you should not be on these boards What if it I objected if to you having access to my records from 1901?. You are a blinkered, myopic, buffoon. Bob

To Ken and Bob This has already been discussed after constituents wrote letters back in the late 1990s about census returns. "Mr. Hoon: The constituents' letters asked when the current instruments prescribing 10 year extended retention periods for the census returns for 1921, 1951 and 1961 were next due for renewal. They also asked whether confirmation could be given that the census returns were not at present closed to public inspection for 100 years under the provisions of Lord Chancellor's Instrument 12 of 1966. The replies stated that the Lord Chancellor's Instruments were due for renewal as follows: 1921 census in 2006, 1961 census in 2001 and 1951 census in 2006. The replies also stated that these census returns were closed to public inspection for 100 years by Lord Chancellor's Instrument 12 of 1966...The grounds for a 100-year closure period for decennial census returns are set out in the White Paper "Open Government" of 1993 (ie the Freedom of Information Act). This assigned a 100-year closure period for decennial census returns on the grounds that they consist of documents supplied in confidence, the disclosure of which would constitute a breach of good faith." The 100 year closure is designed to keep the information of living people confidential. A century means that the chances are even the babies on the census will be dead by then. Those letter-writers above were talking about recent censuses; they got nowhere 5 years ago, and neither will you now. If info on living people goes on a database, then you stray into Data Protection Act territory. As far as I know means getting their permission before you give their info out. Having a 100 year wait certainly solves that problem in one blow! I'm not supporting state secrecy at all. Quite frankly, I have never had problems getting back a hundred years and so I can't see what the problem is. If I was given the choice, I'd rather the 1871 be released online, searchable by name instead of that moronic address-only system, right after sites like b4usearch are closed down. I also think you are being naive if you believe early release would be a 'one-off'. You'd set a precedent. By 2010 you wouldn't be able to hear yourself think for people saying 'but I want the 1921 census now, why can't we have it now, we got the other one early, I want it now'. Http://www(.)archive(.)official-documents(.)co(.)uk/document(/)caboff(/)foi/chap6(.)htm Http://www(.)parliament(.)the-stationery-office(.)co(.)uk/pa/cm199899/cmhansrd(/)vo990422/text(/)90422w19(.)htm

Caroline, I should add that you will probably have to actually visit the Records Office. Try joining a local family history society. Members are a mine of information and they usually hold lots of records of microfiche. Records may also be held at main Libraries too.

Caroline, depending upon where you live it might be helpful to contact your County Council Records Office. I live in County Durham and the Records Office at County Hall is exceptional. To trace brothers and sister I found it best to trawl through the Baptism Registers. These will show the name of the child (Christian and Surname) together with the name of the parents and where abouts they live. By listing all of those with the same surname you build up a picture of the family. Hope this is of some help. When you start doing pre 1901 you will find that Census data is invaluable. Happy Hunting - Linda

Thanks Ken. I don’t think Kathryn read my post correctly. As I understand it there was no undertaking given 100 years ago. Kathryn, there is no law that I know of that prevents the release, it would just take an executive decision by ministers. In any event laws are made and changed by governments, they are not sacrosanct. If the 1911 was released early there would be no public outcry. Aren’t censuses in the USA available from the 1920s?. My main point, to reiterate, is that there is a good argument for it because of the specific problems of 1901-12. I can’t understand people interested in genealogy advocating state secrecy. The censuses hold information about our families and are our property not the governments. How many on this site would not use the 1911 if available? Bob

Thanks for all your replies and emails. Still no luck but I'm not giving up...my old man watches a heck of a lot of footy so I've got plenty of spare time to kill. :o) hahaha Can someone tell me in their honest opinion about buying data discs...is it worth doing? if so, what should I be getting? Caroline

If you got an early release of 1911 census then you have no logical argument for not releasing the other ones early. Your ancesters gave their information on the understanding that it would remain confidential for 100 years. You can't randomly move the goalposts because they're not convenient for you. Laws are laws.

The period 1901 to 1912 is difficult because the birth indexes don't give mothers maiden name nor marriage indexes the spouses name. Early release of the 1911 would plug this gap and could be done as a "one off" but seems unlikely in secret Britain. Going back 100 years using just family knowledge is on the limit for most. Bob

Do you know where they were born? If it is not too far from you, Parish records might help. Or the Registry Office for the District, although it may cost you search fees. Paul

Hi Mike Thanks for the info. I've registered with 1837online and spent a fortune already and have ordered some certificates but am playing the waiting game and was hoping there was some shortcut that I didn't know about in the meantime while the old fella is watching the footy! Regards Caroline

Caroline....... Have you enough information on Grandparents to order marriage certificate ? Then join a family History Society. Annual fees.... around £11 per year. Then usiing their records, fiches and advice .... you can then search from the marriage date for a sibling with approx. two years between each one. You say that the births are post 1901 ? Then you stand a good chance to match up as the Mother's maiden name is shown on the returns... Or you could register on the 1837 site and get some credits and search in the comfort of your home but this way can become expensive. . . Good luck your search. MIKE.

Yes I have but either I'm doing something wrong or i'm totally useless but I can't seem to find anything. Also, it's quite a popular name so how would I know that it's definately them?

Have you tried Free BMD. It might show the births, depends on how long after 1901 they were born. sally

HELPPPPPP!!!!! I've just begun to trace my family and have found it quite hard unless you're willing to hand over the cold hard cash at every opportunity however I have found out some information on grandparents, g-grandparents etc. but how on earth do I look for brothers and sisters of such people????? For example...I've got one grandfather who apparently, according to family gossip, was the eldest of four brothers...where do you suggest I look to find the brothers???? Hope someone can offer some help! Caroline p.s. They were born after 1901 census so got stuck there. p.p.s. Merry Xmas and Happy New Year!! :o)