Genealogy Chat

To anyone who maybe interested!! My distant cousin in Virginia USA tells me that it is what they would call a fireman, on the coal fired Rocket trains that ran in England at this time. They had a two or three man engine crew, the engineer and one or two stokers. It was hard work, and on long hauls they used two men working alternatively. There may have been a Rocket ship service too. His hobby is trains and he is sure of the first definition!. Margaret

Hi Margaret still looking for your William Woodruff!! Was the story of the buffs anygood that I sent you. Irene

Stoker usually means someone who stokes a fire, perhaps that was his job at the time as the boat would be steam about then, could it have been a Rocket Boat, not really looked into that yet. You are giving me food for thought here. Not really looked into the Buffs again since I found the story of the Buffs 1871-79. Irene

Forget the army (I think). How about Stoker Packet Service....the Packet being the regular steamship across the channel.

Hi Irene, Long time no speak!! My son has been to Kew for me today but couldn't find my William Woodruff. They have directed him to the British Library (HEIC) which he was in before he was in the Buffs. They seem to think that his records will be there when he was transferred into the British Army! Why don't they make things a little easier for us to research! There were a few Wm Woodruff's, but non of the right age, hence the re-direction I suppose. Yes, that info you sent was super and my cousin thought it absolutley GREAT! We are trying to cobble togather this tree between us, but as he lives in New Foundland, guess who is doing the research!! Thank you Terence, Got your e-mail, you have given me more food for thought now! Cheers everyone, Margaret

I have never heard the term "stoker" used as an alternative to "fireman" on an English rail locomotive (nor "engineer" - that's an American term). Stokers worked on ships or in the gasworks. I have never heard the term "rocket trains" in connection with British railways. (Nor has Google.) Apart from special test runs, I have never heard of two firemen "taking it in turns" as there were no runs in Britain long enough, or arduous enough, to justify this practice.

Good Morning Geoff! Well, you have thrown me again!! Just as I was thinking I had the answer too! This one may run and run. Terence on the message before yours seems to think it was boats as well! Could he have come out of the army and worked as a civilian on boats or perhaps transferred to something navel, still in the services? Margaret

Morning Margaret, well it is just. Don't forget that they were in Port, I can't remember when we found g granddad in Dover, this was just before they went to Ireland, but they did come back before going to Africa. There is also the gap between two of the children, this is I think when he was away with the Buffs it certainly fits. I wouldn't think they would spend their time sitting around so would be detailed on to something that would need being done in port. Did your son look for the muster rolls, this is what we call pay roll, this is how we found g granddad in Dover but we haven't been back since to check it anymore. It took ages just finding that bit of information. I will have a word with my brother and see if we can get to Kew again soon. Will keep your William Woodruff in mind as well. By Irene

Thank you Irene, Have mailed you. Margaret

Hi Geoff, I have found this site on Yahoo search which talks and describes Napoleonic Land Service Launcher. Something to do with Congreave's Land Service Launching Frame. Further into the site there is another reference to Boxer Rockets in 1864, updated, I think, from the earlier Napoleonic launcher. The RA had an involvement with this. Could this be it?! Sounds very feasible is he was still in the army. The site is www.rockets.*org.uk/mf.map.launcher.land.html Margaret

Margaret I haven't received your email. Have you sent it yet. Irene

I agree with Goeff in part - the Rocket was a one off for the competition and was soon superceded by the planet engines. I did find this contemporary account of a visit to Lancashire to see tha famous engine: "Next morning, without loss of time, I made my way to the then terminus of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway; and there, for the first time, I saw the famous "Rocket" The interest with which I beheld this distinguished and celebrated engine was much enhanced by seeing it make several short trial trips under the personal management of George Stephenson, who acted as engineman, while his son Robert acted as stoker. During their trips of four or five miles along the line the "Rocket" attained the speed of thirty miles an hour -- a speed then thought almost incredible !" So "stoker" was used at the time for fireman

Thank you Bob, This is like the $64,000 question! lol. Irene, I have forwarded mail to you. It went via GR, arrived in my in box OK - enough said! Margaret

Margaret I do not have a ready answer to the question, but think the following: 1) Army - he would surely have stated a rank. Whilst there may have been rocket firing equipment in the army, the soldiers would have gone by normal rank - private/bombadier/fusilier, etc. Not stoker. 2) Navy - a good bet, as Stoker is a naval rank (rating). Perhaps there was a rocket signalling service manned by naval personnel? A wild guess! 3) Merchant Navy - maybe, but seem to think that stokers in this service are more likely called firemen. 4) Railway worker - again would expect to see a traditional grade - cleaner, driver, fireman, signalman, etc. Not stoker. Also if mentioning a particular railway service would expect to see a railway ccompany name, of which Rocket Service is definitely not one. I would not be inclined to confuse 1870's railway workings in the south east with Stephenson's Rocket. A Stoker in the (cross-Channel) Packet Service looks the best guess so far, even if it is the merchant marine. A nice puzzle! Ian

Thank you Ian, So it looks like the Steam Packet ships then. I agree with you about showing rank etc if he was in the army. The 1st son's birth cert had it on ie Corporal in 2nd Battalion 3rd Buffs. I have sent for 2nd son's birth cert today, so we will see if he is still in the army 2 years after 1870. Sorry for delay in replying, my mouse went kaput! Just got it fixed. Margaret