Genealogy Chat

Deborah, This is church latin, & differs from classical. I'm a 'cradle catholic', learned classical (now forgotten!) & sang the church kind. Very confusing. When we married in 1967, in a catholic church, full nuptial mass etc, we went to sign the register,& had to 'officially' repeat our vows in the sacristy (vestry) to the legal registrar, designated by the local Reg. Office. He just happened also to be another priest in the same parish! This was new- previously, the legal bod had been a Deputy from the Reg. Office. The Deputies got fed up spending their Saturdays watching Catholic weddings! The Cof E vicar was always designated a legal Registrar, from Henry VIII's time, I believe, so your ancestors, & their priest (sacerdote?) may well have trooped off to the local Anglican church, probably after marrying in the nearest Catholic church, just to do that 'legal' bit. With the history of being treated as an 'underground' church, it's possible that the priest who recorded the marriage was a bit resentful about having to do this 'repeat' ceremony? One thing for sure- they well & truly 'tied the knot'! And you found the wedding! Mary

Thanks so much everyone! Guess I'll have to keep searching for the 'other' marriage. Definitely appears to have not been the 'real' thing!! Debbie

Debora I think it means "Married according to the rites of the Protestant Church(in other words, a C of E marriage in accordance with the law of the time), that marriage subsequently recognised and blessed by the administering of the Sacred Mass" If I'm right about this, you should find a marriage entry in the Church of England Register. Alternatively, you could go to your nearest Catholic Church and ask the Priest to translate it - they usually have a working knowledge of Latin.

I reckon it is (give or take a bit of grammar - which could completely screw the whole thing, of course! - and not very elegantly) A form of marriage now in the presence of the protestant parish according to the edict of parliament of Great Britain for unwilling catholics and the sacrament was conferred afterwards by the priest. does that seem likely? Christine

Last attempt before I turn in. Some of us have work tomorrow.... :-( The gist is something about the marriage being valid in the eyes of the Protestant church in accordance with the ruling of the parliament of Great Britain but without Catholic consent/approval and communion being given later by a priest.

The last bit (from sacramentum onwards) means that mass was later celebrated by a/the priest.

Hi Janet, Thanks for that. Still can't quite get all the words to actually mean something. Using Peter's site a couple of the words come up with 'no meaning'. Will persevere a bit longer. Debbie

Deborah There is a similarity of church and classical latin but there is also a difference. This, as most people are saying, sounds like a marriage in a protestant church with catholic leanings. Remember that Britain was, and still is a Protestant country since Henry 8 and it was not until the Catholic Emancipation Act of 1829 that catholics had any say in what they wished to believe. Up until then most people suppressed their catholic leanings and most just married in Cof E churches. You always had some who wanted to keep their faith and had to do this surreptitiously, hence the term recusant that was used back in the 1600 and 1700's. Sacerdote is to do with being blessed and conferred might be the word before this? Ealictum I would say was dictum meaning said? Something to do with the Parliament of Great Britain. Let us know when you get the correct translation. Janet

Hi Brenda & Geoff, I can't quite make it make sense either, but got person responsible to bear witness to To proclaim or declare the law of Britain - reluctant or unwilling. Does this mean the priest was unwilling to marry them??!! Oh no, not another scandal! Thanks everyone for your help. Debbie

Looking at my medieval word list, which always lets me down at crucial moments : Now **** in the presence of province/diocese/parish ***** edict parliament GB unwillingly Catholic and oath after ***** ***** priest I can't remember declensions, tenses etc, though there doesn't appear to be a subject in the sentence anywhere. If this is a catholic register kept in England, the same wording should presumably used for every marriage. Brenda

I would think it is nunc (=now). My parents had a catholic "wedding" shortly before my birth after a CofE one the previous year. Just a handwritten note on the back of my mum's baptism certificate. Ipsa contraxit matrimonium cum Ronaldo Galfredo (Geoffrey) in ecclesia Sancti Hugonis apud Lincolnium die 20 Januarii 1947.

Hi Brenda, Think you might be right! Just trying to translate this using the site Peter recommended. First three words mean: Today/Present Likeness/Counterpart Plant/It's seed. Will let you know the finished result, but 'likeness' seems to imply not 'the real thing' ie marriage ceremony. Debbie

In 1771, unless you were a jew or a quaker, you could only be legally married according to the rites of the Church of England. So I think that there must be a second marriage somewhere, to make the union legally binding. Brenda

Thanks Mandy, If you find it - let me know, please. Peter, Off to have a look at that now. Debbie

my latin is self taught but from what I can make out its on about Obaying the Protestent laws of great britain and thous of the church of rome But thats a vrey rough translation

And what was it about Marcus ont omnibus? The only bit I can make out is the law of Great Britain.

Hi Brenda, The marriage took place in 1771. Yes it should say edictum, but I can't correct it!!?? Every time I try I get a message saying "you are not allowed to do this" The site is really getting on my nreves tonight! The second word could well be nunc, it wasn't very clear. The actual wording in the transcripts said - Marriages, so I presumed that it was exactly that. Hadn't thought about a blessing, but there doesn't appear to be any other record of this marriage in another church/parish. You seem fairly in touch with this, Brenda, presuming perhaps that you are Roman Catholic, rather than fluent in Latin, is it usual for the parents not to be named in RC christenings!! Debbie

Yes I did, but at the moment all that springs to mind is Amo, Amas, Amat, Amamis, Amatis, Amant .... I think! I saw some Latin translations somewhere recently ... I'll try and have a think where it might have been. Mandy :)

If no one can help try this site. (www.)nd(.)edu/~archives/latgramm.htm Its a site for Latin words look up

and edictum, not ealictum?