Genealogy Chat

Jane have you tried calling the office local to where the event was orginally registered ....if you explain your problem to them they MAY be helpful and have a look at their copy and tell you. But they may not. But worth a phone call.

Robert Many Churches now only hold their current registers, due to the 1975 Parish Records Act. Briefly, this lays down strict conditions for the storage of Church documents - humidity, security etc. As many small Churches cannot meet these conditions, they either hand them to the Mother Church, if they can meet the storage conditons, or in most cases, to the County Records Offices, which CAN meet the storage conditions. I repeat: order your certs from the Local Office and ask for a photocopy - at least they are likely to phone you and tell you why they can't. Marjorie

Chloe - don't forget, not all marriages took place in a church! The ones I have copies of the original cert for were register office ones. Kate.

I know the LMA holds records later than 1837, however for BMD they go further back than the GRO index which started in July 1837 (parish records etc). Maybe I didn't explain myself better. However if you have the marriage cert from the GRO, and want to look up the original handwriting the local record office would be the place to go and look up the marriage. The GRO does not hold the originals.

Another small point about church weddings. As I said one original register is sent to the District Superintendent and the other stays with the Church. They are nearly always passed on to the CRO or it's London equivalent but I don't think they have to do this, so there may be churches who hold the registers. Since some districts don't issue copies and some of the London ones are been plain awkward Chloe is right, these (CRO) are probably the best source if you can get to them. For civil weddings though only the District Registrars hold the original 'signed' registers. ( GRO do have photocopies of some) Bob

There are one or two sites where images of the original Registers are available online. They aren't necessarily very searchable, so you have to be both determined and systematic. You also need to remember that they sometimes take the image across the whole opened book, so you may need to scroll across to avoid missing anything. http://cityark.medway.gov.uk/ http://www.digitalhandsworth.org.uk/galleries.stm (go to image galleries to find some of Handsworth Baptismal Registers) Christine

Am sorry to hear that Pat, my only advice then is when you first arrive at LMA is ask the staff for ideas. I found them most helpful.

Pat LMA also hold later records than 1837, i managed to find a marriage there from 1882 and got a copy for 35 pence i think!! Orginal writing and a LOT cheaper than GRO!!!!!!!!!! Check their website before you go for what exactly they hold. Shelli

Pat - you might well aready know this, and maybe I'm the one getting confused, but the LMA is what you might need in London (pre 1837)

Pat, CRO stands for County Records Office. I use the the North Yorkshire CRO quite regularly. The marriages are on microfilm. If you find one you want, they now have a self-service photocopier so you can get yourself a copy of the original document (signatures and all). I don't know whether all CROs have this facility. Northallerton haven't had their copier for long. You used to have to ask them to make a copy for you which was expensive. Jill

Practically what I was saying (about handwritten versions, even photocopied versions) not being the original cert. I was just ignored. The ONLY way to see the original handwriting is to look at the parish records for that church. Besides - surely it's the information you're paying for the the handwriting of someone who isn't related to you in any way? They are printed out or newly handwritten when the copy that they have is so dire that it wouldn't scan properly or something. Surely it's good of them to writeit out so you can see what is being said on the cert, rather than them give you a copy that is barely readable..... you'd complain about that too, I'd guess.

I have a few from the same registery Office, all in the same 'script' handwriting. The marriage certificate of my GG granparents was copied this way, and I spent 3 years trying to find my GG grandmother's birth, in both Britain and Europe under the name Boulet. Transpires it was Doutch, and she came from Gloucester!! I'd prefer to have a scanned copy of the original and make my own mistakes in reading the name, rather than have to sort out someone else's transcribing mistake!! maggie

Copied from an earlier thread With church weddings two registers were signed, one at register offices. Every three months the vicar/local registrar copied these and sent them to the District Superintendent. It is these copies that were sent to GRO. When the church registers became full one was sent to the District Superintendent and the other kept by the church (usually then to CROs), so there should be TWO originals from churches (with signatures etc) One with the church and one with the district registrar . The local registrar also sent his completed book to th DS when full. The GRO certs are thus transcriptions and this is where the errors arose. (until photocopying) Not all District Offices give out copies of the originals even though they hold them. So if you can view them at CRO that is your best bet. You will also find ones missing from GRO. Believing GRO to be complete and accurate is one of the biggest mistakes people make. It has been estimated that there are 50,000 marriages missing from GRO ! If you want to read the original ACT OF 1836 which said how this works go here http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb(.)com/%7Eframland/acts/1836Act.htm (heavy reading) Thnks to Guy Etchells GRO can't copy originals because they don't hold them! So some will be transcriptions, some copies of copies of originals. District Registrars hold all originals but some only give out transcriptions. Hope that's not too confusing but that's how it is! ..... Main points to remember. 1. There are TWO original Marriage Certs (with signatures) one with District Registrars, one with Church/CRO. Only one with DR for civil weddings. 2. GRO don't hold ANY originals, they have hand trancriptions and later photocopies. 3 Athough District offices hold originals they don't always issue copies ALWAYS ASK! Bob

I think they sometimes write them out if they can't get a decent readable scanned copy from the original. Diane

I've ordered from locals & GRO, and I have had typed copies/original photocopies/hand-written copies from both. I too was disappointed to get a typed copy from the GRO Sam

Well, perhaps I should add that I'm not normally bothered about seeing the actual handwriting; it was just that I had some certificates from Belfast and they obviously were copies of the original as a certain person's signature on two different certificates matched each other, and I wanted to compare somebody else's signature on one of these with a signature on an English certificate, to see if they could be written by the same person as I believed it was the same person under a false name but the first (Christian) name was the same. I already had a GRO copy of this cert but got another one from the local office, as I said after checking if it could be a copy of the original. Sorry to say the two signatures did not match, but the dates were decades apart so maybe she changed her handwriting in the meantime or deliberately altered her signature? Kate.

Right, well no more £7s from me Tameside if other people are getting 'proper' certificates! It's got to be better getting a photocopy with the real person's handwriting than a flashy cream and red bit of watermarked paper with Josephine Bloggs' scrawl on it. Right? Or is the information contained within more important than my illiterate ancestors X mark? Hmm...

I have a few typed (photocopies of the certs my grandparents had which wasn't many mind) and a couple 'newly' handwritten. I think it's because if they had copied it like usual practice it would have been a very poor copy. Besides, it's never the original handwriting on the cert anyway. The only wany to see the original handwriting of your ancestors is to look at the parish records. Chloe

They vary - some are scanned, some typed, some written, from register offices. One scanned had my Dad's signature as informant, that was lovely to see. Another was typed - my Mum was informant, and I was disappointed not to see her signature! Joy

I have two original certificates and whereas the modern copies are on A4 paper 11 5/8 x 8 1/4 inches - the old certs were about 13 7/8 x 6 1/2 inches thus all the columns were wider.