Genealogy Chat

Hi Sherry I will be visiting the local record office on Thursday, if you send me the full names of the parents/grandparents I will follow them forwards from 1902.

By the way, dont expect to find an 'official' name change for Thomas as kids then were just absorbed into the family and took on the name of the head.

Hi, well, as I said it doesnt always say deceased when fathers are and I reckon he was! Mary J is shown as head on the 1891 so check out his death between 1881-1891. And no, I am not particularly good at this, there are some fantastic people on here who are MUCH better. But I do get obsessive and I knew this wasnt the right Thomas somehow. Registration districts - GENUKI website has them. But just put in a google search - say London Registration Districts or Wales or whatever the area you are looking for and it will come up. The jobs are shown on the census image. On ancestry you get a transcribed (typed info) and then you can click on the actual image from that date - handwritten -this wasnt handwritten by your ancestors! either they would have filled in a form or the enumerator would have done it for them, taken it back to the office and then it is written out again - so plenty chances to be mistranscribed - hence all the weird and wonderful names that come up when you look for someone. Not sure how you would find where they worked unless it is something like the GPO, or one of the utilities, railways etc which would probably have pension details somewhere! Often you have to search by just putting in a first name, date and area to find someone whose name has been mistranscribed as in your Devins, Desvins, Devons etc. When you look at the census image you can note the address they are at which is a help.

and Thomas register as you prob know in 1901 as printers assistant. Also can I ask: when I get peoples occupations - where do you go to find out where they worked etc.

No it doesnt say Peter Devin deceased on the marriage cert, so still alive in 1894.

Gosh youre really good at this searching lark! and I am so grateful for it!! When I looked up Thomas it was on the rootsweb site and it gave one Thomas Devin, born Holywell, when I asked the man at the family records centre, he looked it up and said it was the same area, so i ordered the cert - but now we know different!!!!! I always knew there was something not right about a 5 year old not being with his parents on the 1881 census! Can I ask another question - how do I find out about districts etc so that I dont get the wrong ones again?

BRILLIANT, done and dusted. Its a great feeling when you are sure, isnt it. Yes, must be him, as Thomas was an apprentice carpenter at 15. He must have dumped that job after dad died. You could also use familyrelatives.org to look up dads death must be between 1881-1891. Yes, all from ancestry - tried freebmd but not got the info you need. Always be aware of possible mistransciptions - how many did we have on this investigation - about 6 wasnt it? And also dont worry about ages being out a bit. It can depend on when the census was taken and if someone was born in the early months of that year or late ones of the previous year. You mentioned Thomas born 1875 not 1876 - but it may be he was born in December say of one year and not registered til Jan of the next year (the registrations fall into quarters of a year, so can be entered in the next quarter). Definitely subscribed to ancestry uk - you will love it and it is worth every penny. In a few months time you will have got used to looking up things and tying them together and be doing this for someone else. By the way, if you subscribed today, you now have the right people to look up on the 1871 and 1861 census on there. Also check out the bmd and lots of other stuff. Have fun.

yes, yes, yes On Thomas' mar.cert. it says his father Peter Devins was a Carpenter!!!! so that does make sense! So it looks like you were right, Mary J, obviously gets together with Peter Devins (married or not) and he then adopts or takes on Thomas who has a name change? Theatre wardrobe - yes that sounds an interesting line doesnt it! I cant thank you enough for all this enlightenment! it certainly now starts to tally up. Thank god i dont have to go down the other peter & bridget route cos they were both born in Ireland, and I thought i would be stuck as they are hard to find! Did you just get all this from Ancestry? is this the best place to subscribe. I never know which sites to subscribe to there are so many! Thanks once again!

Nope, you arent a clutz, this is the fun of this hobby, its like a detective story you have to find all the pieces and they have to fit together properly, not forced together! And by the way, my boss is my husband, so I wont get sacked hopefully. I am 99.9% sure now that we have the right family in Mary Jane Williams and Peter Devins. What did the marriage cert give as Peter's occupation. He should be shown as deceased (but not always the case) and he was a Builders Foreman. If that info is right, you have it. Thats good, you will have a proper line, not a false one! You are going to have a lot to tell your relative who contacted you!! But I really do recommend you take out an ancestry sub for about £60 a year 24/7 usage, it is well worth it. Good luck finding first Toms death and Mary J and Petes marriage. The best site for the 1866-1920 period is definitely familyrelatives.org as you can search by name, area and date. Find that death cert! And let me know PLEASE that you have. Otherwise I shall have nightmares about this lot!

Well again, I just looked up the registration districts for Wales and I think Ive put the final nail in the Brigit/Peter theory - Holywell, the cert you ordered for Thomas, son of this couple comes under Flintshire. Your Thomas was born in Ruthin, Denbighshire a different registration district!! So, first thing to do is look for the first Thomas (Brigid/Peter) death between 1875-1881.

Heather - I'm so sorry for distracting you from your work- I wouldnt want anyone to get into trouble or anything. I can see where you have been coming from now......sorry i'm quite new to all this tracing as you can gather. yes, it would put him in the right area. On their marriage cert 1894 is says father is Peter Devins. theres obviously 2 Peter Devins with Thomas sons!!!! That would also explain why Thomas & Louisa also had a daughter called Mary J later on, maybe after his mother Mary J ? I will look down the other line now - thanks alot. I'm obviously a bit of a cluts when it comes to searching - some people seem to find things easily and quickly!!!!!! sorry.

Had a quick look back It doesnt say Martham, it says something then Denbigh on the 1891. Actually Mary seems quite interesting, she is a theatre wardrobe mistress! On the 1891 Thomas shown as a carpenters apprentice. On the 1881 Peter the elder shown as a builders foreman. Now, it could be just the enumerator making a mistake or it could be right, but Peter the elder is shown unmarried. Mary Jane has the name Williams tagged on then Thomas is just dittod and the two other kids given the Devins (or Devnis !!) surname. It may be a transcription error on part of the enumerator. So it would be worth checking for a marriage between Peter and Mary Jane. GOOD LUCK! Do let me know how it pans out.

Im afraid it does seem you have been following the wrong line. You could get some units on familyrelatives.org and see if you can find a death of the Thomas born to Brigit and Peter in Flintshire between 1875-1881. That would be conclusive. I dont know about Martham, Wales, (this could be a mistranscription or just the nearest big town he had been told as a child) but Thomas Williams is shown as the right place of birth for your Thomas Devins in the 1901. You should look for a Thomas Williams born right place, right date to Mary J. The Thomas that you have married in 1901 in Southwark seems most likely the son of Mary Jane Williams from Wales who then married Peter Devin from Scotland and took his name. ON THE OTHER hand, I could be completely mad and wrong but it is looking like Thomas from Flint may have died as a child. And it all started with such a simple question, eh??? Never mind, need to get to the truth of the matter. You could get an ancestry sub - it is essential for this stuff and be well worth it for you.

Well, in `1891 the Brigid/Peter family still in Flint, Wales and no sign of a Thomas: Daven, Bridget abt 1849 Ireland Wife Flint Flintshire Daven, Bridget abt 1882 Flint, Flintshire, Wales Daughter Flint Flintshire Daven, Katie abt 1880 Flint, Flintshire, Wales Daughter Flint Flintshire Daven, Mary abt 1887 Flint, Flintshire, Wales Daughter Flint Flintshire Daven, Patrick abt 1878 Flint, Flintshire, Wales Son Flint Flintshire Daven, Peter abt 1848 Ireland Head Flint Flintshire And still there in 1901: Bridget Devon abt 1853 Ireland Wife Flint Flintshire Bridget Devon abt 1883 Flint, Flintshire, Wales Daughter Flint Flintshire Mary Devon abt 1888 Flint, Flintshire, Wales Daughter Flint Flintshire Patrick Devon abt 1879 Flint, Flintshire, Wales Son Flint Flintshire Peter Devon abt 1851 Ireland Head Flint Flintshire Peter Devon abt 1890 Flint, Flintshire, Wales Son Flint Flintshire

I dont really know, my brain is addled a bit at the mo, trying to get up to date with VAT. I would have thought that if Thomas was part of the Brigit/Peter family in Wales then he could possibly be elsewhere but then wouldnt he have been born in Flint like the rest of the kids? Sorry, dont know. If you have a birth cert for a Thomas born to Peter and Brigit - he must have been born, but did he die? Is Holywell under Ruthin Denbighshire or under Flintshire? Im sure it can be worked out but will take quite a bit of thinking through! The Thomas Williams is born in the right place, right time and is in the right area for his marriage. Is the father Peter same year of birth, I shall have a quick look but I am getting behind here! I shall check if Mary Williams is a widow or whether the enumerator has messed up the names. Will get back asap.

Help Help Help I'm so confused now! On the 1901 census, Thomas Devins was 26 a printers assistant, born wales ruthin. I then looked up Thomas Devin, born 1875 Holywell, got the cert and said Bridget & Peter Devin as parents. are you saying that its possibly this other Thomas Devin (part of Davids family) and I got the wrong certificate and may I should have the Thomas with the 1876 Martham Wales cert? But there is definately a Thomas born to a Bridget & Peter Devin. someone guide me please!

Heather: On my dads birth cert, it says his dads name was Thomas Devin born Wales 1875. I then got Thomas' birth cert, it says parents are Bridget & Peter Devin. Thats why I traced that family on the 1881 census - but as you correctly say there is no trace of Thomas with that family on that census - so does this mean that he was living with another relative at the census time? or do you think i have got the wrong thomas birth cert born in wales and i should have the other one? and i have been going down the wrong line?

Sorry, I think may be this is the family you have for the 1881? But there is no sign of a Thomas born 1875 on there. The Thomas you have shown married in 1901 would have been on this census? Why do you think this is his family? If you have his birth cert with Brigit and Peter as his mum and dad, then surely the 1901 Thomas cant be the same one? 1881 Wales Census records matching your search for All Records > Census > 1881 Wales Census Viewing 1-6 Match Quality Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Residence View Image Annie Devin abt 1876 Holywell, Flintshire, Wales Daughter Mount Pleasant, Flint, Flintshire, Wales Bridgit Devin abt 1846 Ireland Wife Mount Pleasant, Flint, Flintshire, Wales Elizabeth Devin abt 1872 Holywell, Flintshire, Wales Daughter Mount Pleasant, Flint, Flintshire, Wales Kate Devin abt 1880 Holywell, Flintshire, Wales Daughter Mount Pleasant, Flint, Flintshire, Wales Patrick Devin abt 1878 Holywell, Flintshire, Wales Son Mount Pleasant, Flint, Flintshire, Wales Peter Devin abt 1846 Ireland Head Mount Pleasant, Flint, Flintshire, Wales Right, well Im getting totally confused now! SO I MUST GET ON WITH MY PAID WORK!! But you have a lot of food for thought there! Looks like possibly Thomas Devin started life as Thomas Williams???

Well, just to confuse you more - here is the same family in 1881: mistranscribed as Devnis! Thomas shown as Williams And def born in Ruthin. William Chapman abt 1859 Kent, England Lodger 24 Addington St, Lambeth, London, England Jessie Devnis abt 1880 Lambeth, Surrey, England Daughter 24 Addington St, Lambeth, London, England Peter Devnis abt 1850 Kirkinner, Wigtownshire, Scotland Lodger 24 Addington St, Lambeth, London, England Peter Devnis abt 1878 Ruthin, Denbighshire, Wales Son 24 Addington St, Lambeth, London, England Mary Jane Williams abt 1858 Ruthin, Denbighshire, Wales Lodger 24 Addington St, Lambeth, London, England Thomas Williams abt 1876 Ruthin, Denbighshire, Wales Son 24 Addington St, Lambeth, London, England Amelia M. Wollard abt 1872 Lambeth, Surrey, England Daughter 24 Addington St, Lambeth, London, England Martha Wollard abt 1845 Hoxton, Middlesex, England Wife 24 Addington St, Lambeth, London, England Thos. Wollard abt 1840 Walkern, Hertfordshire, England Head 24 Addington St, Lambeth, London, England Thos. A. Wollard abt 1867 Lambeth, Surrey, England Son 24 Addington St, Lambeth, London, Looks like Mary Jane Williams ?? Did she marry Peter?

I dont think its the same Thomas. my thomas was born Ruithin, Wales - I dont know where Marthom is? and the other children were Annie 1876, patrick 1878, kate 1880, this would clash with those dates above wouldnt it? Although you've got me thinking as to whether there is a connection?????