Genealogy Chat

Kate Yes, I am looking forward to getting the Wills, although none are for a John Green, if I can eliminate some others it might help! And if it gives some locations/names of farms, that will help too. I notice William Green, who died in 1878 is described as a Yeoman. I take it this means he was Important, which would actually explain a few little oddities of the Vicar, such as not describing William's daughter's little 'mistake' as a bastard, and actually putting the father's name in the PR - most unusual in my experience (they never married, she later married someone else). I had wondered at the Vicar's squeamishness - he was happy to write 'Bastard' all over the register, except here. A previous entry, in 1774, records the death of Thomas Green aged 74. The entry was written in big, important writing and I am hoping he will prove to be the previous Yeoman - I mean, he is the Grandfather of William the Yeoman. Thankyou for your interest in this - but doesn't it just go to show - YOU HAVE TO GET THE CERTS!!!!If I hadnt, I would never have known I was following the wrong brother! Olde Crone

Oh, sorry, I just assumed from the fact that it describes itself as something like 'Cheshire Wills Online Database', 'search for and order wills online', that they would be downloadable! Silly me. Still, you should have lots of fun when they finally do arrive, and the price is cheap compared to any others. Hopefully William Green's will should mention all his children so if Thomas is not mentioned you'll be pretty certain he wasn't one of his anyway. Is it possible that John and Ann had their child(ren) baptised in Birmingham where Ann came from? If only their names were more distinctive. And / or if Birmingham wasn't so big! Kate.

......... is it completely dead and buried, Marjorie? I like you anyway!!! :-) Joy

Robin Ah, sorry you went to the trouble of looking at Chester BMDs, I have already done that after your useful posting of marriages! But thankyou anyway - yes, I can put these three Greens in a family group (but have I got it right lol).The Greens did another lot of block marriages at St James, very obliging of them, they all signed as each other's witnesses, which helped. I spent an hour or so last night trying to order the Wills from the Chester RO site - it says you cant download them so I ordered them to be sent snail mail. It let me fill in all my details including credit card details, then announced that I had entered an invalid email address (mine). As it is the only email addy I have and it is still working fine, I was flummoxed. Tried to delete it and re-enter it several times, but it got fed up of me doing that and froze the page solid. As I wasnt about to abandon my credit card details on the ether, I had to wait till it unfroze, deleted everything and exited in a huff. Shall attempt again tonight, and WRITE to them! I decided to order five of the six wills - all look useful and hey! For £15 I get details of FIVE people, thats just over the cost of TWO death certs, which dont always tell you much anyway, (and arent available for three of the five people mentioned) Yes, I need to get the St George Register but short of buying it, I dont know how - slither, creep creep, erm, Alteeeer dear, if you DO go to Chester RO, perhaps you could pin down baptism of Thomas Green, in 1835/36, son of John Green (and hopefully, but not set in stone, Ann). I would be most grateful for this - none of the above Wills are anything to do with John Green, so they will only serve to eliminate people and possibly pin down Johns parents. Finally - Olde Crone comes from a notorious but sadly long dead thread - I was accused in a roundabout way of throwing my weight around as Lady of the Manor, so transformed myself into something suitably humble, in attempt to prevent a big sulk - it didnt work! Olde Crone

As this thread has surfaced again, I must say I can't wait to hear what, if anything, you found out from William's will! Kate.

Chester is nice. Sorry, I was drifting........... Marjorie - a question (if you don't mind) - why ''Old Crone''? :-) Joy

If youre nice I'll look up in Chester CRO for you Aunty Marj- I'm registered there with my CARN ticket,lots of stuff there,going back to the 1500's. When I get my act togethere i'm going to voluteer OPC duties for Cheshire.

finally remembered that Cheshire was the original UK BMD site. So the 1843 weddings are all explained: GREEN Eleanor, FITTON Josiah, Sutton St George, Cheshire East SGS/1/220 GREEN John, BESTON Ann, Sutton St George, Cheshire East SGS/1/221 GREEN Mary, SHAW William, Sutton St George, Cheshire East SGS/1/219 And consecutive entry numbers in the register -- triple wedding? Ellinor Fitton died 1846 in Gawsworth subdistrict age 25 Evidently St George's was a new church, baptisms from 1823, marriages from 1835. Not on IGI, so might be worth a look for the missing baptisms

Brenda Thankyou for the addy - I was just muttering to myself about the lack of Cheshire Records on-line, compared to Lancashire! Oh dear, looking at my notes, another candidate for 'John Green' is John Moreton Green, born 1798 but not baptised till 1803. He is the illegitimate son of Amy Green(who is the Aunt of my Thomas and William). In 1803, Amy married John Thumpstone, a Miller of Gawsworth (Thumpstone! A Miller! Geddit?). Almost to the day, appears the baptism of John Green, as above. Above the name John Green, the Vicar has written in tiny writing, Moryton???? (His question marks, not mine). This means I suppose that he was henceforth known as John Moreton Green Thumpstone.I do hope he's not mine. He had a son called Thomas Green, baptised in 1831 at St James. Off to play with Wills now. Olde Crone

Robin Yes, the ages are terribly confused on the 1861, and on 71 and 81 as well, my Thomas has a birthyear ranging from 1835 to 1839 - and I have covered them all. The only William baptism I could find in a range of 10 years to William and Ann, was in 1836 - although it could have been a late baptism, of course. I notice though, that I have a William Green,otherwise Higson, married(?) to an Ann, having their child William baptised in 1823 at the Ebenezer Chapel in Macclesfield - but I think this is a red herring. Olde Crone

Hi Marjorie Try this link: http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/Wills/Home.htm (Why can't I have ancestors in a county that has its index online?)

Thomas's brother William is 27 in 1861, born 1833-4 not 1836. Interesting that the younger brother got the farm. Same thing happened in one of my lines, the eldest never married and worked for his younger brother all his life. John's death is probably one of these 12: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Deaths Jun 1848 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Green John Macclesfield 19 89 Green John Macclesfield 19 119 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Deaths Sep 1848 -------------------------------------------------------------------- GREEN John Macclesfield 19 83 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Deaths Dec 1848 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Green John Macclesfield 19 87 Green John Macclesfield 19 99 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Deaths Jun 1849 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Green John Macclesfield 19 117 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Deaths Mar 1850 -------------------------------------------------------------------- GREEN John Macclesfield 19 100 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Deaths Mar 1855 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Green John Macclesfield 8a 83 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Deaths Sep 1856 -------------------------------------------------------------------- GREEN John Macclesfield 8a 89 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Deaths Dec 1857 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Green John Macclesfield 8a 92 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Deaths Dec 1858 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Green John Macclesfield 8a 65 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Deaths Mar 1859 -------------------------------------------------------------------- GREEN John Macclesfield 8a 84 (although of course FreeBMD isn't complete)

The list of marriages is a bit worrying - I also have a line of Whittakers and Suttons but I hadnt connected them... Its looking very much to me as if I was right and Ellinor is the mother of my Thomas - and her Uncle John is the father! She would have been barely 15 when he was born. Shame and scandal. But where was Thomas baptised? Not in Gawsworth or Macclesfield, that's for sure. I have just noticed Noah White and John Swain on the 1841 - Noah is a name which suddenly appears in the family, and an Ellen Green married Peter Swain in 1826 'with consent'.Ellen is the sister of William and John. The witness was 'Thomas Green' - father or brother. OK, I'm getting somewhere now. And it is perfectly possible that John married twice, both women called Ann. The marriage entries in St James and St Michael (Macclesfield) are pretty sparse. Onwards and upwards - ah, Kate, where did you find those Wills, please? Olde Crone

Oooh, you little treasures.....whilst I have been impatiently waiting for 6pm (cheap rate) to start chasing again, look what you have found me! I found death of William aged 81 on Cheshire BMD sometime early hours of the morning - I am SURE this is William born 1798 - ok its a year out, but so what. I will send for this anyway. Now, according to what I have so far, 'William and Ann' married at St Phillips, Birmingham in 1819, I havent actually seen that entry yet. They had the following children, all baptised to William and Ann Green of Gawsworth, at St James. Ellinor 1820 Mary 1822 Thomas 1824 - I was hoping he died, but no death found. Sarah 1826 Amy 1828 John 1831 William 1836 Mark 1838. My Thomas should be in here, but baptism nowhere to be found, at least in the online registers. And the only reason I had to believe he was part of this family, was the 1861 census, which gives him as Head, A Farmer, at Mollards Farm, Gawsworth, with his wife Mary, his children Ann(1859) and John Thomas (1860). HIS BROTHER William b 1836 Gawsworth and HIS MOTHER Ann Green bc 1796 Birmingham.Looking at it with hindsight, of course, the first boy should be called William - they had three more sons, none of whom was called William. I had already decided that I needed a nice Will or two, or a Land Lease, to sort this out. There is a tempting death of JOHN Green, in 1856, aged 64 (right age) which would lead presumably to my Thomas being able to call himself a Farmer at the age of 23.(But there is a sub-mystery here - by 1864, Thomas and Mary Green and their children, had moved from the heart-achingly beautiful Mollards Farm, into the slums of Manchester, where Thomas became a Railway Porter - why, why,why?) In all my researches, I have yet to come across 'John and Ann Green' - John Green is a relatively rare name amongst the Greens! Thankyou for all the above, this will keep me busy for a bit. Olde Crone

from FreeBMD, to ponder: Marriages Sep 1843 -------------------------------------------------------------------- BESTOW Ann Macclesfield 19 114 FITTON Josiah Macclesfield 19 114 GREEN Eleanor Macclesfield 19 114 GREEN Ellinor Macclesfield 19 114 GREEN John Macclesfield 19 114 GREEN Mary Macclesfield 19 114 SHAW William Macclesfield 19 114 SUTTON Sarah Macclesfield 19 114 WHITTAKER Josiah Macclesfield 19 114 Eleanor and Ellinor are both on the image, but it could be double-indexing rather than two separate girls. Who did she marry though?

Looking through all the above again, Ellinor could be John's daughter or (second?) wife. Possibly John was already married to Ann from Birmingham by 1841 but she wasn't at home that night? Could be pretty difficult to track her down in 1841, though. Anyway, from the 1841 census it looks as though Thomas was John's son. Good luck sorting it all out! Kate.

My guess would be that the William Green 1878 will corresponds to this death, because the Macclesfield district included Gawsworth: Deaths Jun 1878 --------------------------------------------------------------------- GREEN William 81 Macclesfield 8a 111 so that would probably be William senior, wouldn't it? If you don't already have it it must be worth getting just to see if he mentions a Thomas or not. It only costs £3 to download a Cheshire will. I wish I had some Cheshire ancestors! Kate.

Not really sure if any of these wills available from Cheshire would help: THOMAS GREEN GAWSWORTH FARMER 1817 more details AMY GREEN GAWSWORTH WIDOW 1820 more details THOMAS GREEN GAWSWORTH FARMER 1820 more details THOMAS GREEN GAWSWORTH FARMER 1838 more details WILLIAM GREEN GAWSWORTH YEOMAN 1878 more details SAMUEL GREEN GAWSWORTH GARDENER 1884 more details Kate.

and the other William (the baptised one) still with parents in 1861 1861: RG9/2586 District Macclesfield Sub-district Gawsworth Enumeration district 2 Folio 17 Page 9 Mill Lane, Gawsworth William Green 64 Gawsworth, Cheshire Head Farmer 15 ac employing 1 Lab Ann Do 61 Marbrook, Staffordshire Wife Farmer's Wife William Do 25 Gawsworth, Cheshire Son Farmer's Son William Do 11 Sanbach, Cheshire Grandson Scholar which at least confirms there were two Ann Greens, at least (1841 did say William's Ann was born in the county, for what that's worth, so it's possible this Ann is a second wife)

Quick question....marj. Do 2 halfwits make a wit ? :-) chuckle