Genealogy Chat

I think you're all brilliant. I've been so stuck on this branch for ages and thought it was a dead end. I wish I'd posted months ago. Thank you all so much. I've ordered the death cert for Alice (due for dispatch 21st march) so should have confirmation that Alice died in childbirth and possibly an address for Big John. Can't wait! Thanks again to everyone who helped.

Just wanted to say - Isn't Merry brilliant? Dea x

Now the search for Big John in 1901. He remarried in 1903 and I've been unable to find the 2nd wife in 1901, so maybe they were together. Eliza Emily Grigson / Saunders Born: Oct-Dec 1879, Mile End Old Town, Middlesex. 1881: 30 King John St, Tower Hamlets, London. Daughter (1). 1891: 26 Catherine St, Canning Town, West Ham. Scholar. Daughter (11). 1903: 4 Storey St, Newham. Spinster. (27 - a fib on the marriage cert I believe). In 1901 he father and siblings were living at 26 Storey Street, East Ham. I think Eliza and John would have both been near to this area.

I expect John Saunders was working away somewhere in 1901 (having left these two children with their aunt). I would wait and see what the death cert says. If John reg the death it might give you another address for him. I have found that ''single'' people are the most likely to give duff info to the census enumerator - or have duff info given about them (''What's the name of our lodger, my dear??'' LOL) :o(( Merry

Very good point Helen lol Liz

Liz Even when you have certificates it doesn't prove anything. We all know well enough that 'fibs' were told countless times. The only thing that's sure is who the mother was (except for the times she was really the grandmother and lied to protect her unmarried daughter! LOL)

Liz - hope you've spotted that you were right. I was too slow to get you the details you needed to confim your theory but I think we've found the Stammers connection!

The death in 1900 must be right, correct age, name, place, ties in with birth of child later living with other child we knew about. None of those John Saunders look right. He was a labourer on both marriage certs 1894 & 1903 and a cable hand in 1939 when nan married. Don't think he'd have tried his hand at rose growing! I didn't manage to find his secnd wife in 1901, though found the rest of her family living on the street she lived on when she married Big john on 1903. I'll post some of those details in case it helps.

Karen, Unfortunately, until verified by certificates we do not 'know' anything - we are merely guessing and presuming... Liz ;-)

Merry - you are much too fast for me to keep up! But fantastic! So now we know.. Sarah Hughes married Harry Stamers. It looks likely that Alice died giving birth to Lilian (I wish I could get the death cert immediately!), which means Little John had a sister I didn't know about - Lilian. Both children seem to be with their Aunt in 1901. Therefore the Big John I'm looking for will be a widowed Labourer with no family. I can also try to find Lilian.

So the March Q 1900 death for Aice must surely be her???? Age good for birth in 1871! Now, on the nat archives site for the 1901 you can search including marital status. So......I looked for John Saunders aged around 33 and widower (assuming most would be married) These are the full list of results from anywhere in Eng/Wales: Name, Age, Born at, Living at, occupation John Saunders 30 Warwick Birmingham Birmingham Aston Gun Correr Filer John Saunders 33 Stokenchurch Bucks Stokenchurch Chairwork Bench Work John Saunders 34 Spexhall Suffolk Suffolk Spexhall Agricultural Labourer Ordinary John T Saunders 35 London Middlesex Enfield Rose Grower None of them jump out at you, do they????? Merry John Saunders 36 Kent Deptford London Camberwell Painter

Dea - thanks for the tip. I thought it was me, but now it seems like a GR bug which makes me feel better!

Merry you are brilliant! Well done

What about Robert Saunders? Could he be John's brother or is he little John and Lilian's dad? Would Sarah take in her sister's children and brother in law?

Hooray!!!! Marriages Jun 1876 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hughes Sarah Poplar 1c 1090 Kelly Sarah Poplar 1c 1090 MOORE Edward Poplar 1c 1090 STAMMERS Henry Poplar 1c 1090 Merry

Just a tiny tip Karen, When you are adding a reply you don't need to use hyphens etc - the typing comes out exactly as you do it. It is only when you are starting a thread it all jumbles together in one big block. To get around this, when you start a thread, instead of putting in the whole message most of us just put something like 'see below', then post the thread and then open it, click to add message and type it all in there, then it doesn't jumble. Dea x

Alice Hughes parents in 1871 with the children that had so far: Jane Hughes abt 1857 Poplar, Middlesex, England Daughter Bromley St Leonard London Joseph Hughes abt 1830 New Brentford, Middlesex, England Head Bromley St Leonard London Mary A Hughes abt 1854 New Buntford, Middlesex, England Daughter Bromley St Leonard London Matilda Hughes abt 1868 Bromley, Middlesex, England Daughter Bromley St Leonard London Sarah Hughes abt 1859 Bromley, Middlesex, England Daughter Bromley St Leonard London Sophia Hughes abt 1829 New Brentford, Middlesex, England Wife Bromley St Leonard London Sophia Hughes abt 1862 Bromley, Middlesex, England Daughter Bromley St Leonard London I bet you Sarah Hughes, above, born 1859, is Mrs Stammers below: 1901 Frederick Nurse abt 1874 Lessingham, Norfolk, England Boarder West Ham Essex John Saunders abt 1897 Woolwich, London, England Nephew West Ham Essex Lilian Saunders abt 1900 Marylebone, London, England Niece West Ham Essex Robert Saunders abt 1853 Marylebone, London, England Brother West Ham Essex Alice Stammers abt 1884 Marylebone, London, England Daughter West Ham Essex Harry Stammers abt 1851 Marylebone, London, England Head West Ham Essex Harry Stammers abt 1886 Hampstead, London, England Son West Ham Essex Sarah Stammers abt 1859 Poplar, London, England Wife West Ham Essex Sarah Stammers abt 1882 Marylebone, London, England Daughter West Ham Essex William Stammers abt 1891 Marylebone, London, England Son West Ham Essex Merry

Karen, when was Sarah born? Sarah Stammers wasa born 1859 Poplar. Liz

OK, so <P> doesn't work! For now I'll use hyphens ---- The Stammers: Thee was some-one called Stammers at my nan's funeral but my dad doesn't know who he was. Hadn't thought it could be a descendent of Alice's sister (there was a Sarah Hughes). No-one can remember a Lilian, I'll see if I can find a death record for her and if little John was with his aunt that explains why I can't find big John (if alone he could be one of many). ---- Alice's death - I'd totally missed this West Ham one - been looking at the scanned in images on Ancestry so must be going blind. Thanks. I'll order the cert.

I have tried freebmd for a marriage between a Sarah Hughes and a Harry/ Henry Stammers, but nothing came up. I am out of credits on familyrellies otherwise I would have looked there. If Karen can confirm whether or not Alice had a sister Sarah it would help. Update - so she did! Did Sarah marry a Mr Stammers by any chance? Liz