Genealogy Chat

I've been looking for my grandmother for years. On the 1901 she says she was born in Oxford c1875. On her children's birth certs. (no marriage cert. has been found) she gives her maiden name as LILIAN Augusta Harris. The only person I can find who (almost) matches is an illegitimate child born in the Oxford workhouse in 1874 by the name of LILY Augusta Wall Harris. No one can find any trace of her in 1881 but in 1891a kind person has found LILLEY Harris, born Oxford, age 15yrs and living in St Pancras as the niece with a family of Smiths !! I paid the Oxford records office to search their poor law and baptism records and they appear to have been very thorough but can find no trace of her. Is this the end of the line ?Should I just presume, as everything seems to fit, that this little girl was in fact my grandmother and I'll never know anything else about her. Any ideas - Cath.

Hi Have you tried this one in 1881 RG11/1520 FOLIO 118 PAGE 16 CHARLES B HARRIS head 1847 ELIZA HARRIS wife 1847 ETHEL A HARRIS daughter 1877 LILIAN A HARRIS daughter 1879 RUTH M HARRIS daughter 1880 CHAPEL LANE GT ROLLRIGHT OXFORDSHIRE DONNA SORRY WAS A BIT PREMATURE THIS ONE HAS THE NAME ALICE AS THE A IN 1891 SO NOT YOUR LILIAN AUGUSTA

Is the Oxford workhouse in the parish of St Clements, Oxford? Merry

Donna, sorry, forgot to say Lily's mother was Emily Jane Harris. Merry - yes, that's the one. Ed - had a quick look but can't find any of them in 1901 or 1881 but then again he was called Arthur Smith and just came from Yorkshire! Thank you Cath.

Here's the Smith family in 1901. Who's the new niece, I wonder???? 1901 Gertrude Clara Harris abt 1883 Oxfordshire, England Niece St Marylebone London Caroline Smith abt 1853 Oxfordshire, England Head St Marylebone London Kathleen Daisy Smith abt 1886 Blenheim, Oxfordshire, England Daughter St Marylebone London Orchibald Claude Smith abt 1889 Marylebone, London, England Son St Marylebone London Merry

Here's the second niece in 1891: Clara Harris abt 1851 Thrupp, Oxfordshire, England Wife St Clement Oxfordshire Gertrude C Harris abt 1882 Oxford, Oxfordshire, England Daughter St Clement Oxfordshire Henry J Harris abt 1850 Headington, Oxfordshire, England Head St Clement Oxfordshire London H Harris abt 1889 Oxford, Oxfordshire, England Son St Clement Oxfordshire Mabel G Harris abt 1881 Oxford, Oxfordshire, England Daughter St Clement Oxfordshire Minnie E Harris abt 1879 Oxford, Oxfordshire, England Daughter St Clement Oxfordshire Sidney J Harris abt 1887 Oxford, Oxfordshire, England Son St Clement Oxfordshire Walter H Harris abt 1884 Oxford, Oxfordshire, England Son St Clement Oxfordshire Merry

Unfortunately, their Lily seems to have the middle initial M :o(( Henry J. HARRIS Head M Male 31 Barton Cab Driver Clara HARRIS Wife M Female 28 Thrup Charles J. HARRIS Son Male 8 Leighton, Buckingham, England Scholar Lilian M. HARRIS Daur Female 4 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar Minnie E. HARRIS Daur Female 2 Oxford, Oxford, England Mabel G. HARRIS Daur Female 7 m Oxford, England James WILKINSON Lodger U Male 35 Oxford, England College Servant checking the image though....... Merry

.........and she had a change of birthplace...........Yes, it is M on the original page :o(( Merry

Merry you're a STAR. I couldn't find the Smiths on 1901 because on 1891 the children were just Daisy and Claude. Thank goodness 'my' Lily looks like being the niece of Caroline Harris and not A. Smith. I'll see what I can find re the new niece and/or Caroline then all I need to know is why my grandmother had moved to Bury (Lancs) by 1900!?! Thank again for the clue. Cath.

Hang on.....I thought I was confirming she was the WRONG person???? Wrong middle name and born in Birmingham?????? Confused Merry

I have just read this thread!......Never give up, always pose a question on the boards, you will always get some kind generous help or suggestion as has been proved today. I wouldn't have got as far as I have without the help and confidence given by our member friends. Good hunting. Bob

Merry, Sorry for the confusion. I replied to your first message. I think you got the right family in 1901. I have Caroline, (Kathleen) Daisy and (Archibald) Claude all with the same age and place of birth together with Lilley (sic) in 1891. This is the family I'm going to look into further. Thanks again, Cath.

Have you tried getting the birth cert? Or I suppose you have already? Name: Harris, Lily Augusta W Record Type: Births Quarter: December Year: 1874 District: Headington County: Buckinghamshire Oxfordshire Volume: 3a Page: 649 Suzanne

Suzanne,Thanks for replying but I've got it already. Cath.

Cath, which is her entry on the 1901? Merry

HARRIS, Lilian Augusta 1862 September Births Strand London Middlesex Harris, Lily Augusta 1871 June Births Brighton Sussex East Sussex Harris, Lily Augusta W 1874 December Births Headington Buckinghamshire Oxfordshire Harrison, Lily Augusta 1875 September Births Christchurch (1837-1919) Hampshire Harris, Lilian Augusta 1893 March Births Cheltenham Gloucestershire Harris, Lillie Augusta S 1893 December Marriages Cardiff (1837-1974) Glamorgan Monmouthshire Harris, Lilian Augusta 1895 June Deaths Chelsea (1841-1981) Greater London London Middlesex Harris, Lilian Augusta 1895 March Births Depwade Norfolk Suffolk Harris, Lily Augusta 1900 June Marriages Islington Greater London London Middlesex Just trying to find alternatives....dont think any of these are any good (except for the obvious 1874 / Oxford one)

Have you traced her mother Emily Jane Harris back any further? Or is it that you're not sure that the birth certificate is the right one and that Emily Jane Harris is not your Lilian Augusta Harris' mum? If that makes any sense? Emma

The most likely to me would be the workhouse birth, then the mum gets married and dau goes by the mum's married name on the census, but when she has her own children she says Formerly Harris. Is she ''married'' in 1901??? Merry

Yes Merry, that sounds reasonable but then it would have to be a coincidence that 1891 has a Lily Harris, right age and born in exactly the right place - right down to the exact parish. By 1900 Lily had become Lilian Graham even though she doesn't appear to have married my grandfather - they were together for 30+years despite this. Cath

Hi Cath I went to my own Grandparents marriage when I was 12 years old - they had lived as husband and wife for over 40 years! (wont go into the story) but get my meaning? Suzanne