Genealogy Chat

I've been having so many problems trying to sort out who my Great Grandfather & family were .....at which stage would you give up? pls see below!

I have a conflicting DOB for my Gt Grandfather which has caused me so many problems! His age on his marriage certificate conflicts with that on the 1871 census, (it can only be him there!) and he is untraceable on any since, and I haven’t been able to find him on any BMD indexes! I’ve been going round in circles with his family for years now – the pieces are sketchy but I think I am almost there. I don’t want to claim someone else’s ancestor – how convinced does anyone else here need to be before claiming a rellie? If anyone’s interested (though people have looked before) the details are as follows on the 1871 census (RG9/184 52) JOHN CHARLES SOMERVILLE b c1866 St Giles Mx (however, his marriage cert in 1894 says he was 23!) Father GEORGE SOMERVILLE b ?1843 Scotland If anyone can find a birth for JCS I would be so pleased! Thanks

Could the 23 be a badly written 28? Fran

Hi Fran I don't think so as his bride is 18 and the figure is quite different. It has been mooted that he was trying to conceal his real age to make it nearer to hers! Thanks anyway! Allie

But I find sometimes its better to take a break and go off on another tack & come back later. Some sites get updated & what wasnt there before is there later when you search. Never give up is my motto cos you never know what may come up

Well... I never take anything on a census as being particularly accurate. But equally, there can be mistakes on certificates too, either deliberately or unintentionally. Um - where is St Giles M? Have you tried to find a baptism for him? Are there millions of John Charles Somervilles, or only two or three? Can you account for all the others of this name? OC

Hi Shirley Good advice which has helped me so much in the past! Sometimes you can get bogged down and a break definitely helps. HOWEVER in this case, it hasn't worked ....have just taken it up again after several months but still no clearer unfortunately! I don't want to give it up - I particularly wanted to sort it out before I meet up with his descendants (my aunts) at a family wedding in July! Thanks Allie

Don't forget a lot of people were not sure how old they were and just guessed.I have a great grandmother who hardly aged at all and when she died her husband gave her age as 49.This would have meant that she started having children when she was 8! Fran

Hi OC There are a few JCS's about, but only one with the right credentials ie father George, b Scotland, right area of London, DOB (sort of). My Grandad (his son) was also JOHN CHARLES, born 1898 - this too is wrong on the index for the 1901 census as he is down as aged 13 due to a tick being mistaken for a one (he is actually aged 3!) I know there is a confusion in that his brother WILLIAM and he seemed to be christened at the same time, (familyhistory site) and I think this is where the initial confusion came - but that doesn't explain the false date on the marriage cert! Thanks Allie

Yes Fran - you're so right! I should really give him the benefit of the doubt, but because of later events (my Grandad was ill-treated and put into a home) I probably am being a bit harsh! Allie LOL about your poor old Gt Grandad thinking his wife was still so young - that's love for you!

hiya, firstly OC, st, giles mx is middlesex london, HTH, secondly i would tend to favour the census, for birth year, the reason I am stating this is:: My grandparents, grannie born 1901, hubby born, 1888, they marry in 1924, both aged 21, (he is actually 36 at time of marriage) HTH Julie

There is this entry on the 1881 CENSUS: John C. Somerville abt 1861 St Martins Son St Giles in the Fields London Mary Ann Somerville abt 1831 St Martins Head St Giles in the Fields London They were living in Endell Street, Finsbury and it says John was a House Painter. Could that be him with his widowed mother? Does the mother's name match up with the 1871 census? (haven't checked it myself).

Thanks Ann It was OC who didn't know where St Giles was! (I've been there so many times!) I've also had this prob with this area of London - sometimes it's Holborn, sometimes St Mary-le-Strand etc. Should I just accept that this is the right person do you think? Thanks also to Julie That's encouraging about the marriage cert! Allie

hiya allie, i would go with the census, and you seem to have already found the likely candidate,(the one with the dad being born in scotland.) It wasnt that uncommon to have either bride or groom lie about their age, sometimes it was thought better to fib and have an age near to bride, as was in your case, and in mine come to think of it LOL, perhaps he didnt want people thinking he was an older man, or perhaps he'd lied to the brides parents saying he was same/similar age, this is something we just wont know, all we can do is speculate, Julie

Hiya Julie Yes I'm coming to that conclusion also. If only I could find him on the birth index! Wouldn't you know it but there is a huge chunk out of the index containing the name SOMERVILLE (on Ancestry) for one of the years I've been looking at to try and find him - typical!!!!! Can't find a death for him either...... Anyway, think I'll just give the Aunts what I have and hope that it's right! Cheers Allie

hiya allie, i dont want to appear a know it all, but have you looked in index under different spellings? ie summervill(e)? it may hold the clue, if those pages are missing then i'd ask for an 1837 lookup, if someone has a spare credit or two Julie

hiya Julie Course I don't mind the suggestion! I THINK I looked the alternative spellings up a while back, but it's worth another try! Thanks Allie

Hi, Have you checked Scottish records? If his dad was from Scotland maybe thay lived there for a while and that's why he's not on English census......Could he have been born there?? I had an ancestor that was baptised twice - once where they were born and also in London...Don't know why though!! Deb

Allie What year did he marry? And what occupation is on the marriage cert for him? Re the 1871 family you found - I think this is the father, George, on the 1861 Census with his family (note the name Isabella of his sister - he named a child that). They were living at Staple Inn Buildings, Finsbury and George's occupation was Waiter (which kind of fits in with the 1871 occupation of Hotel porter). George Somerville abt 1842 Scotland Son Holborn St Andrew Middlesex Hugh Somerville abt 1845 Scotland Son Holborn St Andrew Middlesex Isabella Somerville abt 1840 Scotland Daughter Holborn St Andrew Middlesex Jane Somerville abt 1812 Scotland Head Holborn St Andrew Middlesex

john somerville hampstead 1a 528 Dec 1865. the Charles could have been added later..??