Genealogy Chat

Lyla, is there a possibility there was a Kingborough surname in connection to the family? Perhaps a favourite person died and the name was given to the next child born? Here's a long shot - but my sister-in-law has the middle name of 'Virginia'. Her parents lived in the U.S. state for a short time and gave her that name. Kingborough sounds like either a surname or a place name.

John Yes, I am familiar with Brother to the Ox - a wonderful book. Heather The name Joyce - um, only one who comes to mind is James Joyce the Irish Playwright/Poet, but I bet it wasnt him, it would have been some music hall singer, or yet another trashy writer! I am supremely glad I wasnt named after either of my grandmas, otherwise I would now be either Ethel or Elsie. These are marginally worse than my name Marjorie, which my mother chose after seeing a film entitled Marjorie Morningstar. She really shouldn't have gone to the pictures in her condition, I reflect sourly. OC

I like the naming patern thingy, just been through my tree and it seems to work in a similar pattern, although most of the men in my tree uptill 1900 are called William, John, George, Samuel or Thomas, they have to go next brother down if they;ve already used that name, which they usually have, maybe thats why there were only usually 7/8 names, maybe they couldnt have anymore as they'd run out? Hmmmm R x

I'm just on break from work, so have to make this quick. After posting this thread, I talked to my mum. I found out something I had never heard before: my dad hated his middle names 'Sarge Vaus', which were surnames. Kids used to tease him when they found out what S.V. stood for and apparently my dad was so tired of the laughing he eventually told kids S.V. stood for Stuart Victor! (The things you find out through genealogy, eh?) Thank you all for taking the time to reply. Perhaps one of your suggestions could be the answer. Better run back to work now.

My son has just named my first grandchild, a boy, Taylor which is my maiden name and also the middle name of my youngest son. He should have called him Fotis after his Greek father but declined (you can understand why) my son is called Nicholas after his Greek Grandfather and his fathers sisters and brothers all have boys called Nicholas. You have to name your first born after your father and first born girl after your mother otherwise they get awfully upset. It is very funny just like in the film 'My big fat Greek wedding' when she introduces all her family to her fiance saying 'this is Nicki, this is Nico, this is Nico, this is Nico (about 20 of them) and this is Fred' Kate

I've been doing some transcribing for 1907 births, judging by some of the middle names I would say the mothers maiden as a middle name was still quite common then Linda

Any ideas why Joyce became a popular name in the early decades of 1900's O.C.? Just to add, I got named after someone mum had never met before! On the night I was born, the doctor called in to see mum - hed been to a posh do up West (London) with his 'lady friend'. Said lady friend was an actress who had been appearing on the stage that evening. Doctor asked mum if lady friend could come up (mum and dad rented 2 rooms in a house in Bermondsey) to see such a 'beautiful' baby (I knew I must have peaked too early). So doctor - apparently in full naval uniform from posh do, goes all the way down to get lady friend from car. Lady friend comes up with a large bouquet (no doubt a freebie from her stage act) and gives mum bouquet. Mum overwhelmed - probably first bouquet shed had since the day she married - says I will name beautiful baby after you, what is your name? So that was that - named after someone they had only just met and mum never remembered the womans surname even. My identity sold for a bunch of flowers.

Hi Lisa Just a thought but we have a similar situation in our tree. I was talking about it to my dad (b. 1938 so not ancient!) and he said that he thought the new names were named after 'richer' relatives from the mother's said of the family. Apparently in our family they named the children after the wealthy relatives first (they lived in 1 or 2 rooms in Sarf London so there were no really rich relatives, you understand!) Just might be the same for youra ...? Jo

OC Have you read Brother to the Ox by Fred Kitchen? I sort of met him (b. 1891) when I was small and he'd been invited to speak at some gathering my parents were involved in. Googled it for reference and it's still in print! J

Merry I read ANYTHING! (But not much trashy fiction in the last 20 years - its more likely to be something thrilling like the Hearth Tax Returns for Wheelton 1643, or an account of someone's life as a hill farmer in 1823!) OC

Thank you Heather, Mary, Janet, OC and :) Merry. I just ran in here for a second (we're continuing to build a fence). I'll be sure to give this family some thought and see if one of your reasons fits. Back outside, before I'm missed.

I didn't know you read trashy fiction, OC??! Merry

Ethel was a popular name in the late 1800s/1900s, presumably after the trashy fiction writer Ethel M. Dell! OC

I've read that children were often called after godparents and centuries ago, these tended to be immediate family. As people began to move about, they mixed in a wider social circle and later still, people could read and had access to a wider range of names. One of my cousins had three forenames - Gordon Mason Knight. None of them are family names -apparently his mother nearly died and had to have an emergency section, The two Doctors involved were Drs Gordon and Mason, and the birth took place in the Knight memorial hospital. Jay

Lisa, one of my branches has several generations in which all the children were given a Christian name starting with the letter A. They were obviously running out of ideas when they got to Asenath, and somebody who couldn't spell registered Anternet. Maybe your family decided to start their own naming pattern with the letter E?

No, you probably arent missing anything - you are talking turn of the century when naming patterns fell apart. My own mum was called Joyce and her sister Ethel after generations of Horsteads only being called Sarah, Dinah, Bridget, Mary Ann, Charlotte etc. and suddenly we have Joyce and Ethel. So I think it just stopped being the in thing to use family naming patterns. Having said that, they both had a second name that echoed grannies either side.

Hi Heather. Thank you for your reply - how interesting with the Cook name! We only have family surnames as middle names. I really think I'm missing something, as there were three brothers (and an unmarried sister) and two of the brothers gave their children (1870's-1898) almost the same names (I've found only one child from the third brother). Wouldn't have wanted to attend their family get-togethers - there would have been three cousins named James Mumford, all around the same age; as well as two Williams, two Caroline's, etc.

Depends on the years we are talking about. By late 19th century the naming patterns had started to disappear. By early `20th century people were named after music hall stars, silent movie stars, heroes, heroines - makes it a lot harder to trace them as far as Im concerned. I have one period where so many of my lightermen have Horatio as their middle name. At one point a lot of them were getting Cook as a middle name - having failed to find a rellie to fit in with that, I suddenly realised it would have been around the time Captain Cook took the south sea islands.

Thank you Jill and Mandy. They actually did use a variation of the naming pattern, including giving four of the siblings surnames as their middle names (poor Ethel Stuart and Emily Vaus). But I can't see where Eric or Ethel fit in. But perhaps they either fancied the names, or did name them after someone outside the families.

Hi Anne, thank you, perhaps she did (as MY mum did), but I know it was VERY important for this family to carry on names. My mum refused to continue the tradition and she's never heard the end of it. I was always told that the grandparents would have been very, very unhappy with my mum, which leads me to believe both were interested in carrying on tradition.