Genealogy Chat

Susan As I have said, I apologise if you feel we were being personally hostile to you...not the case. The hostility was towards the idea, not you. I am sorry that I did not make that clear in the first place. The idea is one which crops up over and over again on these Boards and some of us are getting weary of it, as our replies show. You were not to know that of course, and I do appreciate that you posted with the best of intentions. I just don't want to see people wasting their time on yet another petition, which will be politely received and then filed away. The Government have already said that no further time will be spent debating this issue, which has already been voted on twice and turned down, by a very large vote in one case. Friends??? OC

Arnt all the people sposed to be dead before we can look to protect their privacy Stacy

It's always nice to see balanced and reasoned argument :-) Yes it will undoubtedly take time to get the information ready for publication however a little jollying along of those whom we elect and pay to conduct the business of government never did anyone any harm I would much rather speak out and see people try to take action rather than just sit back and accept what happens. It is interesting also that we so readily accept that our laws can be abused by those who are choosing to say that the FOI Act doesn't apply here. Take care Paul

Well, yes, Stacey, when the 100 year rule was devised it was thought that everyone would be dead by the time they were 100 - they mostly were. And in those days very few people had access to the census or even an inclination to look at it. It is interesting to speculate whether the Government will change the 100 year rule to 120 years, or even 130, given that so many people now live beyond their 100th birthday. OC

Stop making me want to reply, please!! What if they release early because of a petition and DON'T digitise, to save money?? Merry

lol merry i have to say that 100 year rule is outdated, but as OC said only coz peeps live longer, perhaps it should be extended to protect those that live longer this could be the next pertition..but lets leave it till 2013 shall we lol

What's the FOI Act pls??

freedom of information act Julie

Of course lol, silly me. Problem is I see letters and my brain refuses to translate them sometimes. Thank you Webster :-)

From the National Archives article that I had previously posted in full, but deleted as part of my non-stomping reforms: ''Under the Freedom of Information Act, The National Archives considers requests for access to information contained in the 1911 census returns in consultation with the Office for National Statistics (ONS) as the department that transferred the record to us. On the specific enquiries received to date it has not been possible to release the information that has been sought, on the grounds that it is exempt under section 41 of the Act, which relates to information provided in confidence.'' Merry

If anyone considering the idea of a petition took the trouble to research previous attempts to have 1911 released early, they would be aware that it has no chance of happening. Starting something without doing the research first is not helpful to anyone. Reg

Paul I am by no means a legal expert lol, but I understand that the FOI Act DOES apply here. The FOI Act is concerned with the openness of various public bodies and their goings-on. Thus we can demand quite lawfully, to see the Statistics produced by the 1911 census, but we cannot be permitted to see personal and confidential information about the individuals enumerated on there. This seems quite proper to me. There is another point here - the Government have no money of their own, it is all MY Taxes (and yours too, of course). As a Taxpayer, I do not want the Government to waste my hard-earned money, over and above that already allocated for the job, on producing and releasing a census early - a frankly trivial use of extra money, in my opinion, to pander to the needs of Family History hobbyists. None of us will die/go hungry/be homeless for want of a look at the 1911. Once the 1911 is scanned and on-line, no doubt the Government department involved will then sell it to the highest bidder - quite rightly so, in my opinion. OC

Now I'm a little confused.... If the clause of 100yrs was put in place to protect people's privacy..... but you an go into your records office and look for all births, deaths, Marriages &divorces as well as court cases from the old parish records age upto almost this present day! Is that not far more personal information..than you can obtain from a cencus record? Susan (your apologies were gratefully received... and Thank you for taking the time to give an opinion...but please be gentle)xx

Merry that's a very interesting quotation from the National Archives. What I equally find interesting is that of over 380 requests for information recently I am reliably informed by a good source that not a single one has resulted in the release of any information. Could that be anything to do with the inability to recover more than a nominal fee for conducting the research? Reg how do you know what research has been undertaken prior to launching the petition? Take care Paul

I'm extremely uneasy with this. Yes, by all means get things moving and prepare the census, stabilise it, digitise it, index it and anything else you like with it. But please, please please, don't release it. Those people, people like you and I, signed those papers in good faith - that it would NOT be released for a hundred years. I don't care about the Freedom of Information Act. They signed on the understanding it wouldn't be released. Imagine you signed legal documents on the understanding a, b and c would/would not happen. Years later (no pedantics over the numbers please!) because someone else wants to see your documents (and no other reason) the law is changed so a, b and c no longer apply and it's now going to be x, y or z. Who can you trust now? I don't believe you can wave the FOI in people's faces and say that's reason enough - IT'S NOT!!! What about the respect of every single person who filled those papers in - your and mine's ancestors. Where's the respect for their wishes. I know where mine is - and I don't want them released, as much as I want to see them, I respect their wishes. I hope you do to. If there is ever a petition up NOT to release it early I'll willingly sign that. In fact, so strongly do I feel about this issue I'd fight tooth and nail to be one of the first!!! Snowdrops

Susan a really good point! In terms of the costs of the exercise - my understanding is that the 1901 Census is more than paying for itself - we must all be very heavy spenders in terms of getting information :-) Take care Paul

Can anyone remind me what the state of School Education was back in 1911? What was the level of literacy amongst the general population in 1911? How many people actually knew that the records were confidential? How many people knew that the official closure had been increased to 100 years having been previously been 80 years. I personally have immense respect for my Ancestors and their wishes and I do find it a tad offensive to have it implied that I don't but I am sure that was not what you intended? Take care Paul

Susan There is a difference... Births Marriages and Deaths are all public information, for pretty obvious reasons. Anyone can request such information by payment of a fee for the certificate.(Although security issues of identity theft now mean a tightening up on events in the last 50 years) But you need to do a bit of work to connect births to marriages and marriages to deaths, as we all know on here. Thus, although the information contained on each certificate is personal, it is not legally private, and nor is it identifying in itself. In other words, it does not easily lead you to a block of information about that person, their lifestyle and habits. By contrast, Census information is taken under duress, by penalty of fine for lying/not giving the information.It is used for Government Statistical purposes only and is collected for that prupose alone. It immediately tells you something about the person, who they are living with, how many children etc, what they do for a living and so on. If this information was immediately available in a public way, it could be misused - think of all the bigamists we have tracked down in the 1800s for a start! We should all think ourselves lucky that someone long ago had the foresight to keep all this stuff - Australian Censues are destroyed the minute their Govt has extracted the statistics! OC

Paul The question of whether they knew the info was confidential is impossible to answer. They wouldn't have realised that silly bu***rs like us would want to see tham anyway would they?

OC A very good point. We should be grateful that the info is there in the first place even if we do have to wait.