Genealogy Chat

It wasn't, of course, only Catholics who used Latin. It was only banished entirely from English legal documents in 1733. I was taught that the virtue of Latin was its lack of ambiguity. Hmm. Edus can equally mean Edwardus or Edmundus. Is Dionisia Denise or Deunes? I have seen someone stake their reputation that Elys should be Elias. But is this the same name as Elize, latinised as Elizeus, or a different one? It is quite bad enough knowing that our ancestors probably had nicknames that we are unlikely ever to discover, but much worse that we may not even know their given names in the accepted versions that they used.

didnt use that on BBC site OC.....

To confirm how thick I am - although I am a Catholic, can you give me a clue on these as they are in my tree: Septimus Octavius and for luck, Theodosia just waiting for a Claudius...... Thanks, Jeanne

Ego They are moderating out the 'left footer' reference I expect. OC

I have posted the same stuff on the BBC site and its being hidden for moderation ???????????????

Left footer is a (usually derogatory) term for Catholic and derives from church ceremonial, because a 'proper' procession or movement from one place to another during the liturgy should lead off with the left foot. Very old fashioned, and most modern priests brought up on a diet of Vatican II wouldn't have a clue either!

Never, in the whole of my life, seen George written as Adalbertus!!! In fact, never seen Adalbertus either. However, there is another important point to remember here - many Priests and Vicars (who also made latin entries pre1750s) were not educated, had the merest grasp of Latin and made up quite a few names and their latin grammar was non-existent. For instance you may see Jacobus filius Johannes, which is grammatically incorrect. In theory there is no way of knowing who is father and who is the son, but the usual rule of thumb (for baptisms, anyway) is that the first name mentioned is the child, the second name is the parent. I occasionally do battle with a most curious name I have found (in latin) in my tree - Gandalfi. I am pretty sure the Vicar MEANT to write Randalphi, but he didnt, he wrote Gandalfi. I cannot come up with any acceptable translation of this name, so Gandalfi he remains in my tree. OC

Unless he's ?5th declension - like Jesus - in which case the possessive looks just the same - ''Jesus''! Nothing like putting a spoke in the wheel!! ;-) Christine PS - I do reckon this is a very useful Tip

Fabulous post, but I'm unfamiliar with the term 'left footers' (presumably meaning Catholics). Where does it come from? I was raised a Catholic (since given it up) and my wife was nominally Protestant - I've always called the fatty lump in the opening of a cooked turkey the 'parson's nose', while my wife calls it the 'Pope's nose'. Funny how these expressions come about - thank goodness we're much more tolerant these days than in times past. Tim

Some Changes in Names seen in Registers In Latin, the spelling of a name will change depending on whether it is simply the name itself, or whether it is the name of a parent or a bride. If you have two names in a register which to your mind should be spelled exactly the same way and they are not – then this is because the rules of Latin and the way that names should be spelled tell us whether it is the child or parent who is being named. The name changes to indicate “son/daughter of, bride of.” The first name is spelled as it should be and the way the parents first name ends James son of James should read : “Jacobus filius Jacobi.” This combination of endings is constant for any male name that ends in ”us” eg. Anthonius, Bartolomaeus, Cornelius, Carolus, Edwardus, Franciscus, Gulielmus, Henricus, Josephus, Patricius, Petrus, Stephanus, Timotheus. Any name ending in “us” used as the father's name should end in “i” e.g Anthonius, filius Edwardi; (Anthony son of Edward) Petrus, filius Stephani; (Peter son of Stephen) Josephus, filius Patricii. Joseph son of Patrick John son of John becomes Johannes, filius Johannis Any name ending in “es” or “is” in the nominative case e.g Johannes, Danielis, Micaelis takes the “is” or can remain the same Danielis filius Micaelis : Daniel son of Michael Danielis filius Johannis : Daniel son of John Johannes filius Danielis : John son of Daniel Names ending in “o” add “nis” to the father or the mother Hugo filius Hugonis : Hugh, son of Hugh Names ending in “a” should end in “ae” when it is the father or mother who is mentioned in the records – in most cases with Irish records the “e” is absent when it comes to Mariae e.g. Maria, filia Mariae : Mary, daughter of Mary This group includes: Anna, Brigitta, Caecilia, Catherina, Elena, Elinora, Hanoria, Honoria, Johanna, Rosa. e.g. Brigitta, filia Annae : Bridget daughter of Anne Honoria, filia Johannae: Honoria daughter of Joan (see name list above Honora = Joan) Catherina, filia Elenae : Catherine daughter of Helen. Helen is a name that is rarely seen in parish records that are written in English up to the late 19th century. This name is usually found as Ellen in Irish parish records that are written in Latin Winifred should belong to this group and just becomes Winifreda Marriage can be slightly different: if the name ends in “a” the ending becomes “am” e.g Johannes nupsit Annam : John married Anne Jacobus nupsit Brigittam : Jacob (James) married Bridget 5) names ending in “ix” should become “icis” in the genitive: Beatrix filia Beatricis 6) there are a few odd ones, namely Thomas, Jeremias, Barnabas, Adamus, which don't fit the rules and can be found in different forms e.g Thoma filius Thomae : Thomas son of Thomas Thomas filius Thome : Thomas son of Thomas Adamus, filius Ade or Adam : Adam son of Adam The name Bridget usually follows the same form in baptismal records as it should in marriage records, i.e. Bridget is often written as Bridgetam in baptismal records whereas it should read Bridgeta

SAVE THIS FOR YOUR RESEARCH>>>>>>>>> Latin Names Adalbertus = Albert or George Adam (Ade) = Adam Aedus = Hugh Aemilia = Emily Agna = Agnes, Nancy Agneta = Agnes Alanus = Alan Albertus = Albert Alesia, Alicia = Alice Alfredus, Aluredus = Alfred Alicia = Alice, Elsie, Alyssa Alienora, Eleanora, Elianora = Eleanor Aloisius = Aloysius, Louis, Luis Aloysius = Aloysius or Lewis Alvredus = Alfred Amica, Amata, Amia = Amy Anastasia = Anastasia or Nancy Andreas = Andrew Anna = Ann, Anne Antonius = Anthony Arcturus, Artorius, Arturus = Arthur Audoenus, Audoinus, Oeneus, Oenus = Owen Augustinus = Austin Avelina = Evelyn Bartholomeus = Bartholomew Beatrix = Betteris, Beatrice Benedicta (f.)= Benedict, Benet Benedictus (m.) = Benedict, Benet Bertrandus = Bertram Brigida, Brigitta = Bridget, Brigid Carolum, Carolus = Charles, Carl Caterina, Katerina, Katharina = Catherine Catharina = Catherine, Kathryn, Kathleen Cecilia = Cisley, Cecily Cecilius = Cecil Christiana, Christina = Christine Christophorus = Christopher Constantia, Custancia = Constance Daniele = Daniel Denisia, Dionisia = Denise Dionisius, Dionisius, Dionysius = Denis Donatus = Duncan Dorothea = Dorothy Eadmundus, Edmundus = Edmund, Edmond Eadwardus, Eduardus, Edwardus = Edward Lena = Helen, Ellen Elias = Ellis Elisabetha, Elizabetha = Elizabeth, Beth, Betty, Erchenbaldus = Archibald Eustachius = Eustace Eva = Eve Felicia = Felice Francisca (f.) = Frances Franciscus (m.) = Francis, Frank Fridericus = Frederick Georgius = George Gerardus = Gerard Gilebertus, Gislebertus = Gilbert Giraldus, Geroldus = Gerald Godefridus, Godefredus = Godfrey Goisfridus, Gosfridus = Geoffrey Gratia = Grace Gualterus = Walter Guglielmus, Gulielmus, Guilhelmus, Gulielmo, Gulielmum = William Haraldus = Harold Helena = Helen, Ellen, Nell, Aileen, Eileen Henricum, Henricus = Henry Henrietta = Henrietta or Harriet Hereweccus, Herveius = Henry Hieremias = Jeremiah Honorah = Nora, Norah, (Jane, Jean, Joan!) Honoria = Honour, Honor Hugo = Hugh Isabella = Isabel Ioannes, Joannes, Joannis, Johannes, Johannis = John Jacobus = James or Jacob Joanna, Johanna = Joan, Jane, Jeanne, Jeanette, Joanne, Sinead, Siobhan Johanna = Jane, Joan, Jean and Honora Josephum = Joseph Josias = Josiah Laurencia, Laurencius, Laurentium = Laurence, Lawrence Lucas = Luke Ludovicus, Lodovicus = Lewis, Louis Malachias = Malachy Marcus = Mark, Marcus Margareta, Margreta = Margaret Margeria = Margery Maria = Mary, Maureen, Molly, Marie Maria Anna = Mary Ann, Marian, Marianne Mariana = Marion Martinus = Martin Mathaeus, Mattheus, Mathias, Matthias = Matthew Matilda, Matildis, Matillis = Matilda, Maud Mauricius, Meuricius = Maurice Michaelem = Michael Milo = Miles Moyses = Moses Muriella, Miriela, Mirielda = Muriel Oliva = Olive Patricius, Patritius = Patrick Petrus = Peter Philippa, Philippe = Philip Radulfus, Radulphus = Ralph Randolphus = Randal, Randolph Reginaldus = Reynold Reimundus = Raymond Ricardus = Richard, Dick Rugerius = Roger, Rory Samuelem = Samuel Stephanus = Stephen Theodoricus = Theodore, Derek Thomasum = Thomas Timotheus = Timothy Tobias = Toby Vincencius = Vincent Willelmus, Guillelmus= William

For anyone with Catholics in their tree,and needing to translate from original church registers SEE BELOW.