Genealogy Chat

Good afternoon all, I'm having difficulty in go a little further in tracing my ancestors. I'm trying to locate the marriage of my Great Grandad - Frederick Thomas Wise c.1883. I think he got married in 1905 in Southwark, London but unsure of his bride. Records state he could have married Mary Anne Fowke or Mary Anne Ashford.
How do I go about researching the correct marriage please?
I seem to be going round in circles!!

Thank you.

ondon, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921


Name: Frederick Thomas Wise
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Age: 22
Spouse: Mary Anne Matilda Ashford
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 7 May 1905
Parish: St Paul, Westminster Bridge Road
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Thomas Wise
Spouse Father: Frederick Ashford
Register Type: Parish Register

Mary has signed as Ashelford. The register is wrong.

Andy

This looks like the birth of the youngest son on the 1911 census:-


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:

WISE, JOHN THOMAS ASHELFORD Order
GRO Reference: 1910 J Quarter in SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 38

I would imagine that the mother's maiden name is a mis-spelling of the surname Ashford, so I would go with Mary Anne Ashford.

Kath. x

This seems to be them on 1911 census:


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

9 Marys Buildings S E, Lambeth, London, England



Frederick Thomas Wise Head Married Male Printers Assistant 25 1886 Lambeth SE
?

Mary Ann Wise Wife Married Female - 27 1884 Southwark SE
?

Frederick Thomas Wise Son - Male School 5 1906 Lambeth S E


George Edward Wise Son - Male - 2 1909 Southwark S E


John Thomas Wise Son - Male - 1 1910 Southwark S E

This is the birth of another two of the children on the 1911 census (again mother's maiden name is given as Ashelford):-

Mother's Maiden Surname:
WISE, GEORGE EDWARD ASHELFORD Order
GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 11


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
WISE, FREDERICK THOMAS ASHELFORD Order
GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 288

Kath. x

1911

Name: Frederick Thomas Wise
Age in 1911: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Lambeth
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Search Photos: Search for 'Lambeth' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 9 Marys Buildings S E
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: PRITERS ASSISTANT
Registration district: Lambeth
Registration District Number: 25
Sub-registration district: Lambeth Church
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Piece: 1954
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick Thomas Wise 25
Mary Ann Wise 27
Frederick Thomas Wise 5
George Edward Wise 2
John Thomas Wise 1

The birth records for all the children are shown as Ashelford.

Andy

More children after census

urname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Sep 1913 (>99%)
Wise Edward R Ashelford Lambeth 1d 560 Scan available - click to view
Births Dec 1915 (>99%)
Wise Henry A Ashelford Lambeth 1d 461

Andy

That's great thank you. Was that info found on this site?

The births of the children were on the GRO site:-

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

Kath. x

If you look for the marriage in Mary Anne's name it definitely gives her surname as Ashford:-

First name(s) MARY ANNE M
Last name ASHFORD
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1905
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ MARY ANNE M. ASHFORD married one of these people
Henry William Boden, >>>>>Frederick Thomas Wise<<<<
District Southwark
District number -
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Page 145

HOWEVER - this seems to be her birth:-

First name(s) MARY ANN M
Last name ASHELFORD
Birth year 1883
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District Lambeth
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Page 349
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006

Kath. x

Birth for Mary


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Jun 1883 (>99%)
ASHELFORD Mary Ann M Lambeth 1d 349


ASHELFORD, MARY ANN MATILDA DALLEY Order
GRO Reference: 1883 J Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 349


1901 census for family

Name: Frederick Ashelford
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Mary Ann Ashelford
Birth Place: London SW
Civil Parish: St George the Martyr
Search Photos: Search for 'St George the Martyr' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul Southwark
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Southwark
Sub-registration district: London Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 06
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 368
Folio: 137
Page Number: 22
Household schedule number: 110
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick Ashelford 45
Mary Ann Ashelford 44
Mary Ann Ashelford 18
Frederick Ashelford 16
Thomas Ashelford 14
Sarah Ashelford 12



Parents marriage

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1882 (>99%)
ASHELFORD Frederick St. Saviour 1d 203
DALLEY Mary Ann St Saviour 1d 203


Andy

Karen ..........

to answer your questions,


none of the information was found on GR

It looks as though the marriage register information and censuses were found on Ancestry, or possibly FindMyPast

Both are subscription sites.

The birth registrations are from the GRO Index ............. a relatively new on-line source to the Index to the General Register Office that shows the mother's maiden name from 1 July 1837 to ca 1916.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

It is free to use but you do have to register and sign in every time.

That site is also the best place to order certificates for all births, marriages and deaths in England and Wales from 1 July 1837 to about 2005 (privacy considerations affect who can buy later certificates without certain proofs being supplied).

Freebmd is the site most of us use to find birth, marriage and death registrations that have been transcribed from the GRO Index. This site shows the mmn for births from mid-1911

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

You have to buy the actual certificate to see the details.