Genealogy Chat

Hi, I'm trying to find my dads grandad. Well I have found him I think but I'd like to delve further and don't know how too.
His name is Charles Gilmartin born 1905 in Oldham Lancashire. His father was also Charles and his mother was Mary.
Charles went on to marry a Sarah Morgan and they had 7 or 8 children (one of them being my grandad) in Liverpool or Lancashire west Derby as it was back then. What I have been told is that Sarah is buried at Anfield but Charles is buried in Perth Australia ( this I know from family history). I think I have found his burial site at karrakatta cemetery in Perth in 1963 29th August. What I'd like to know is how he died and what was he doing in Australia. If I have searched correctly the info I have found says he was a navy seaman possibly fireman/stoker. I can't find his death certificate or copy of it or Sarah's (who I assume died over here being as she is buried in Anfield.

Any help appreciated.
Thanks

You don't say when Sarah was born but could this be her death:-

First name(s) SARAH
Last name GILMARTIN
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1906
Age 59
Death quarter 2
Death year 1965
District PRESCOT
County Lancashire
Volume 10F
Page 197
Country England

Kath. x

Yes that could be her. I'll check now as I know her maiden name was Morgan but couldn't find her birth year either. I'll see if this fits together.
Thank you

This is Charles and Sarah's marriage:-

First name(s) CHARLES
Last name GILMARTIN
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1927
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ CHARLES GILMARTIN married
SARAH MORGAN
Spouse's last name MORGAN
District WEST DERBY
District number -
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8B
Page 885

The certificate would give you her approximate age - although some people didn't tell the truth when marrying.

Kath. x

I think that this is where I'm getting stuck. Will I have to order there marriage cert as I don't know the year she was born or where. There are over 200 results so I dont know how I can be sure which one she is? I'd assume she was from Lancashire area but only one there is born in 1904 the others are Wales area but I suppose they could of met anywhere.?

?? Sarah Morgan
REGISTRATION YEAR: 1905
REGISTRATION QUARTER: Oct-Nov-Dec
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Liverpool
PARISHES FOR THIS REGISTRATION DISTRICT: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
INFERRED COUNTY: Lancashire
VOLUME: 8b
PAGE: 115

It's very difficult with common names. I do think you will need the marriage certificate which would at least give you her father's name but it would still be difficult to find the right person unless she is honest about her age on the certificate.

There are a few births in West Derby which is where they married so she could be one of them.

Is it possible that Charles died on board a ship on the way to Australia and was buried out there because of that?

Have to go to bed now but will look at this thread again tomorrow to see if anyone has come up with anything.

Kath. x

I think I may have found her now with that info you found. It gives her address on the census when she was 8yrs old as Walton Liverpool which adds up as I know my grandad grew up in Walton but his dad was born in Oldham so maybe they lived in Liverpool as that was where she was from. If I get the marriage cert and it has her fathers name on it should tally with the census and fingers crossed that sorts that! As for Charles' death all we know is he died in Australia on a beach? I'm not sure if that's just a watered down version though. How would I get his death certificate from Australia.. Or find out what date year he was there from? I can only get England and Ireland results from this site... Or am I doing something wrong?

Charles' death reg? The year matches with what you've been told

Name: Charles Gilmartin
Death Place: Western Australia
Age: 58
Registration Year: 1963
Registration Place: Fremantle, Western Australia
Registration Number: 403 (408 on the wa site)
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1905

You can repeat the search and order a copy of the DC from
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx

Added - it costs AUD44 and has to be requested by post.

May be an Australian member has a better idea of how to go about it
2nd addition - each Australian State has an Ask a Librarian service. If you were to find the one for WA and email them, they may be able to find a newspaper report

Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980

Name: Charles Gilmartin
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1958
State: Western Australia
District: Fremantle
Subdistrict: Fremantle

8 Collie St. He was a seaman.

The National Archives of Australia, immigration and naturalisation has an entry
GILMARTIN Charles - [Ex s.s. "Monowai" at Sydney in about August 1955]

Unfortunately no further details are given, so we can't be sure that it is the correct Charles.

He was still on the NYC run in 1952

Name: Charles Gilmartin
Arrival Date: 21 Dec 1952
Birth Date: abt 1905
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: English
Port of Departure: Manchester, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Manchester Division

Described as 5ft 8ins tall, 168lbs with tattoos on both hands. He was a Fireman/Trimmer

In case you don't have this..............

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
5 Back Daisy Street Oldham, Oldham, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Charles Gilmartin Head Married Male 38 1873 Ballina Co Mary Ireland Cotton Operative Transcription
Mary Gilmartin Wife Married Female 33 1878 Lancs Oldham Cotton Operative Transcription
Charles Gilmartin Son Single Male 5 1906 Lancs Oldham School
Mary Gilmartin Daughter Single Female 2 1909 Lancs Oldham At Home



Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1905
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
GILMARTIN Charles Oldham South Oldham GIBBONS OSOU/2/220




Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1904
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office
GIBBONS Mary KILMARTIN Charles Oldham Register Office or Registrar Attended Oldham RM/108/55

One further child of the marriage

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1912
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
GILMARTIN Owen Oldham East Oldham GIBBONS OEAS/19/80

If the death for Sarah is correct, she would not have been 8 years old in 1911

You say that Charles and Sarah had 7 or 8 children, but there are only two births on freebmd for Gilmartin with MMN Morgan

Correction. I see one other with surname mistranscribed

(below looks to relate)

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1918
GILMARTIN Owen 6 Oldham Central Oldham OCEN/33/18

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

(from above free link)


Deaths Dec 1918 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------
Gilmartin Owen 6 Oldham 8d 1194

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Chris :)

WOW thank you everyone. Just going to go through all this again and check it against what I have. Thank you for the Australia info.
Fingers crossed I'm getting somewhere now!
Can't believe how helpful you have all been... very much appreciated.

Thank you!

Jacquline, Charles & Sarah had 7 possible 8 children. One of those children was my grandad. The names I know of are: Charles (this is my grandad) born 1930 west derby. Vera, Sarah, Partick, John, Mary, Norah?? ( I have found a Norah with mothers maiden name as Morgan but says she died at 18 yrs old. Yet my dad remembers at Aunty Nora being old - so that has stumped us!
Is there any way to find out how many children Charles & Sarah had and their names? Is there such a search that I can do? They would have all been born in West Derby, Lancashire. My grandad was born in 1930.
Am I right in reading then that my gg grandad was originally Kilmartin (or spelt wrong on marriage cert) who married Mary and her maiden name was Gibbons?

+++DetEcTive+++
I'm certain that this is the same Charles as I know he worked on the ships. So do you think he moved/arrived over there in 1955?

Chris Ho :)
So this could be a brother of my gg grandad?? Is that info saying he died aged 6 in 1918? So he could have been born around 1912 ish?

Sorry for all the questions, it's all very complicated. Trying to sieve through it all!

UPDATE: Chris that OWEN was my gg brother - his mothers maiden name was Gibbons which is what Jaquline found! -

The marriage entry being recorded as Kilmartin may well have been due to the accent...........Charles was Irish.

These are the births I found on freebmd...........a site you would find useful in your favourites, along with LancsBMD


http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/


Births Mar 1928 (>99%)
Gilmartin Norah Morgan W.Derby 8b 1074


Births Mar 1934 (>99%)
Gilmartin Patrick Morgan W.Derby 8b 1004

plus Charles whose surname was recorded as Gilmaratin

First name(s) CHARLES
Last name Gilmartin
Age -
Birth year 1905
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth place Oldham
Birth county Lancashire
Place OLDHAM
Discharge number R 103698
Identity certificate number -
Card type CR2
Date range 1921-1941
Series BT348
Piece number 1
Record set Merchant Navy Seamen