Genealogy Chat

Hi there,
Thankyou for your interest.Austin was actually born in Gamlyn Terrace,Penywaun,near Hirwaun,Aberdare.His mother died shortly after,(cause unknown to me) his birth leaving my father aged 3 and Austin.Assuming my grandfather still had to work,my dad was cared for by a neighbour/relative and Austin went in to care as he was mentally retarded to some degree and possably too much responsability for the neighbour/relative. The date of birth is right and DOD seems probable too.I do know he spent some years as an adult ,after his departure from care,over in Cardiff.I suppose it logical that he went in to care as local to home as possable.If that is the case then Aberdare is the closest main town.I am fortunate in that I have some local knowledge of towns and villages and their relationship to each other.I did live in that area as a baby and visited relations up until my 20's. :-)

Might this be his DC reg?

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2006 about Austin Williams
Austin Williams
Birth Date: 11 Jun 1925
Date of Registration: Mar 1998
Age at Death: 72
Registration district: Cardiff
Inferred County: Glamorgan, Monmouthshire
Register Number: A10B
District and Subdistrict: 8901A
Entry number: 129

If he was still in care, the place of death or usual residence might be of interest. If it was a 'home' of some sort, they might be still have his records and allow you to view. However, they could be covered by the 100 year privacy laws which would be a bit of a bummer.
Similarly, if he was born in what had previously been a work house, the discharge books may give a hint where he initially went. Many WH Infirmaries were converted to hospitals for the general public

Hi there folks,I have a question for you.My fathers brother was brought up in some institution or other after he was born (not sure how old he would have been ) following the death of his mother.He was mentally retarded to a degree and lived wherever it was till he was an adult.His name was Austin Williams (no middle name)born 1925 in Hirwaun,Aberdare,Glamorganshire.Parents Charlotte and John Charles Williams.How do you trace where he went ? Can you get access to the list of inmates.I know there were cottage childrens homes but I seem to recall my dad telling me (years ago)that Austin lived with a mixture of orphans,mentally ill and elderly patients.My grandmothers death may be linked to Austins birth as the 2 dates are close,another mystery !! Any pointers people ? :-)

You're welcome, Val!
Please post any more discoveries on this thread. Others who have helped may be interested too.

Good luck with your search.

Hi there argyllgran,
Your efforts are boundless and impressive.I just wish I had the knowledge to do likewise.I have just made contact with a relative who hopefully can provide the right answer.I mistakenly thought that people didn't move around much in those days,so based a lot on that theary,how folks met etc.I hadn't realised that there were so many coal mines in a relatively small area till I looked in to it all.I lived in Cwmdare as a baby,right in the sight of a pithead and have been to Wales over the years since several times and still didn't twig it.It was a proper COALRUSH.Thankyou as ever.ps.Should I message you personally or in the box(like this) ?I will let you know whatever info I receive from relatives.I bet you will be right though !!!! :-)

1871 Wales Census about Elizabeth Joseph
Name: Elizabeth Joseph
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Williams (*** - no, see below)
Gender: Female
Where born: Mountain Ash, Glamorganshire, Wales
Civil parish: Ystradyfodwg
Town: Rhigos
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration district: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 62
Piece: 5403
Folio: 61
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Williams 83 ***
Ann Williams 53 ***
Elizabeth Williams 42 ***
Thomas Joseph
Charlotte Joseph 32
Mary Ann Joseph 12
Elizabeth Joseph 9
Esther Joseph 2
Jane Joseph 7 Months

******** On the original image, the three people surnamed Williams are a different household. The Williamses are at 1 Rose Place, and the Josephs at 4 Rose Place.

Elizabeth's mother is Charlotte Joseph, not Elizabeth Williams.

1891 - Charlotte now widowed, living Rhigos:


1891 Wales Census about Charlotte Joseph
Name: Charlotte Joseph
Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Llanelly (Llanelli), Carmarthenshire, Wales

Civil parish: Rhigos
Ecclesiastical parish: Ystraddyfodwg
Town: Rhigos
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration district: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4442
Folio: 47
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
Charlotte Joseph 54
Esther Joseph 23
Jane Joseph 20
Gwen Joseph 15
Alice Joseph 12
Thomas John Joseph 10

Here's an Eliza Joseph born 1861 in Mountain Ash - matches her post-marriage details better. But parents Thomas and Charlotte. All siblings born Hirnant.

Is this the family in the other member's tree you mention? It does seem more likely to me.

1881 Wales Census about Eliza Joseph
Name: Eliza Joseph
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas Joseph
Mother's Name: Charlotte Joseph
Gender: Female
Where born: Mountain Ash, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil parish: Ystradyfodwg
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: Rose Place
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Gen Serv

Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration district: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5319
Folio: 55
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Joseph 43
Charlotte Joseph 44
Eliza Joseph 20
Esther Joseph 13
Jane Joseph 11
Margaret Joseph 9
Gwen Joseph 6
Alice Joseph 3
Thomas J. Joseph

This is the 1881 census you mention. It says she's born 1864 in Aberdare, which doesn't really fit with the census info.

Do you have a birth record or similar which names her parents? There seem to be a lot of Elizabeth Josephs in Glamorgan, and Wales generally.


1881 Wales Census about Elisabeth Joseph
Name: Elisabeth Joseph
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Lewis Joseph
Mother's Name: Margaret Joseph
Gender: Female
Where born: Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil parish: Aberdare
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: 3 Gwawr St
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Servant

Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration district: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5323
Folio: 70
Page Number: 37
Household Members:
Name Age
Lewis Joseph 60
Margaret Joseph 56
Mary Ann Joseph 20
Elisabeth Joseph 17

????
Don't know which one!

Births Jun 1860 (>99%)
JOSEPH Elizabeth Merthyr T 11a 290
JOSEPH Elizabeth Swansea 11a 518
JOSEPH Elizabeth Newport M 11a 163
Births Jun 1861 (>99%)
JOSEPH Elizabeth Georgina Swansea 11a 529
Births Mar 1863 (>99%)
JOSEPH Elizabeth Neath 11a 420
Births Sep 1863 (>99%)
JOSEPH Elizabeth Swansea 11a 498
JOSEPH Elizabeth Merthyr T. 11a 367


In 1911, she's born 1861, Maritarip Ash (ie - Mountain Ash), Glamorgan, Wales.
In 1901: 1861, Glam, Mountash
In 1891: 1861, Hirnant, Glamorgan, Wales

1901 Wales Census about Maggie Olice Smith
Name: Maggie Olice Smith
Age in 1901: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edr Smith
Mother's Name: Eliza Smith
Gender: Female
Where born: Glam, Hirwain

Civil parish: Rhigos
Ecclesiastical parish: Ystradyfodwg
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration district: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 89
Piece: 5033
Folio: 46
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
Edr Smith 40
Eliza Smith 40
Thos Smith 14
James Smith 9
Charlotte Smith 5
Edr John Smith 3
Maggie Olice Smith 1

1911 Wales Census about Edward Smith
Name: Edward Smith
Age in 1911: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil parish: Rhigos
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 17 Moart Pleasent Pendenyr Road Hirwain Glam.
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 27
Estimated Marriage Year: 1884
Occupation: Coal Miner Hewer
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Registration District Number: 590
Sub-registration district: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 04
Household schedule number: 109
Piece: 32483
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Smith 49
Elizabeth Smith 50
Gwer Smith 25
Thomas Smith 23
James Smith 19
Charlotte Smith 15
Maggie Alice Smith 11
Edward John Smith 13
William Henry Smith 9

1891 Wales Census about Edward Smith
Name: Edward Smith
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Liza Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Blaenavon, Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil parish: Rhigos
Ecclesiastical parish: Ystraddyfodwg
Town: Rhigos
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration district: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4442
Folio: 47
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Smith 27
Liza Smith 30
Mary Jane Smith 9
Gwen Smith 5
Thomas Smith 3

Marriages Jun 1883 (>99%)

Joseph Elizabeth Merthyr Tydfil 11a 727
Smith Edward Merthyr T. 11a 727

Hi folks,I think its fairly certain Mary was born in a workhouse probably Monmouth.One of their sons,Edward,born 1861/4 in Blaenavon,was my great grandad.The family were living at 10,Penmark Row,Rhigos at the1881 census.He married Elizabeth/Eliza/Liza /Elisabeth.They lived "by Mount Pleasant Inn " Rhigos.They had Mary Jane,Gwen,Thomas,James,Charlotte,Edward,Maggie . .I believe her surname to be JOSEPH.The family lived at 3,Gwawr Street,Aberdare at 1881 census.The parents-Lewis & Margaret Joseph, both from Llanelly.The dilema I have is that her exact details feature on another members tree but surrounding relations don't match any of mine.Am I barking up the wrong tree !!!!!!!!! Would like a fresh pair of eyes to see right road please.Any help is ALWAYS appreciated. :-) Val

I think I missed something with Mary Ann Davies! But if any doubts I would think this is her daughter's birth:

Name: Eseneth Smith
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1872
Registration district: Abergavenny
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 63

Jan

Hi all,Thanks for all you're efforts.You all had the right person as she was married to James Smith and the childrens names tally too.I don't have any certs for any of my ancestors at all,shame that.Thankyou for the advice too.Using capitals is me being very lazy,sorry if it gave the wrong impression.I shall look into hotels and the like in Monmouth too for clues. :-)

Don't know if this helps. It mentions "the Lodge", but not Hillstone or Illstone.

In 1870 a new Monmouth Union Workhouse was built to accommodate 200 inmates. It was located on the West side of Hereford Road and consisted of four blocks of buildings: The Lodge, a receiving building, the principal building and the infirmary. The buildings cost £10,000 to build by H. P. Bolt & Co, Newport, and were designed by G C Haddon of Hereford.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monmouth_Poor_Union

Interestingly there is a Lodge Hill and a Lodge Farm and a Standing Stone in Newport Mon. There is also a Newport Lodge Hotel. And, 4 miles north of Monmouth is the Newton Lodge Hotel. Any of these could be a connection to Hillstone Lodge.

Marriages Mar 1865 (>99%)
Davies Mary Ann Merthyr T. 11a 415
Smith James Walter Merthyr T. 11a 415