Genealogy Chat

I have come to a full stop with Maria Branson
born about 1812-13 died as Maria Poole in 1849
in Haverhill Suffolk wife of George Poole
in the 1841 census it says birth county unknown
so it looks as though that is as far as i go.Any Ideas thankyou
Margaret

Margaret,

A few queries:

You say that she died as Maria Poole in Haverhill, Suffolk in 1849. There does not appear to be a death registered showing at freebmd.

You say that in the 1841 census her birth county is unknown. When recording the 1841 census the only indication of birthplace shown was whether the individual had been born in the county they were in when the census was taken. Presumably you mean that she is shown as not being born in the county where she was recorded in that census. In 1841 was she known as Poole or Branson and in what location did she appear? Remember that in the 1841 census the age of adults over the age of 15 were generally rounded down to the nearest 5 or 0 years so how sure are you that she was born 1811/12?

As I cannot spot a Maria Branson marriage to a George Poole taking place between the September quarter 1837 and when you say she died in 1849. Do you know where and when the marriage took place? Also how did you discover her maiden name?

Well, here is the death entry

d. Mar 1849 Poole Maria Bury St Eds 13 323

and here is the marriage

5 Nov 1830 Maria Branson & George Poole Haverhill, Suffolk, England

now to go back a bit ...

FreeBMD records have plenty of omissions esp 1837 - 1851 and in any case go no further back than 1837.

Just for ref:
1841 England Census
Maria Pool Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Female
Civil parish: Haverhill Hundred: Risbridge County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Registration district: Risbridge Sub-registration district: Haverhill
Piece: 1032 Book: 13 Folio: 25 Page Number: 3
George Pool 25
Maria Pool 25
William Pool 9
George Pool 8
Hannah Pool 6
James Pool 2
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1032; Book: 13; Civil Parish: Haverhill; County: Suffolk; Enumeration District: 2; Folio: 25; Page: 3; Line: 15; GSU roll: 474641.

Hi yes that is their marriage here is her death but Poole without the E I have her death certificate

.Deaths Jun 1849 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pool Maria Risbridge 12 30
she was 37 when she died

The marriage details should give you fathers details and witnesses which could help identify where she came from?

Roy

Have you seen the marriage register?

Usually at that time they just state "both of this parish" but sometimes you may get a clue. Maria Branson of ..... wherever.

I would not worry to much about Pool with / without an e in the census as census spelling accuracy generally is poor. There are several public trees on Ay with Maria & George but none offer a possible solution to her origins.

I suggest you get the marriage cert which will have a lot of useful details - parents of couple, origins, witnesses. It costs about £ 9. The local records office certs are better than GRO and usually cheaper.

If you do a FreeBMD Search on BRANSON (no first name) up to 1851 for Essex and Suffolk there are hardly any entries for Suffolk and a lot for Essex. The Essex ones also show up in Family search going back around Little / Great Oakley nr Harwich. There is also this marriage: m. Jun 1846 Branson Henry & Lovick Julia Newmarket 14 159. Hy was prob. from Essex and may well have been related to yr Maria.

When you get stuck ( aka brick wall) it often helps to switch to a possible parallel line as well as forking out for a cert.

My guess is that yr Bransons are from this Essex line - the Colne valley then and now is a natural community between Essex and Suffolk.

There are all kinds of reasons why there is no obvious record of an Essex / Suffolk birth abt 1812 for Maria. It may just have been skipped (money), row with the vicar (not uncommon), doubts over parentage (not uncommon), registered with the Methodists (strong in East Anglia), Maria may have had another Christian name and preferred Maria, church page lost / damaged, transcription errors ...

Essex / Suffolk were very hard line areas for non conformist religion and at that time a name such as Maria rather than Mary would have suggested RC. Just a thought.

It was quite usual to print fairly full marriage details in the local newspapers as it boosted circulation - this practice was almost universal until the 1970s when it started to drop off. Nearly all of the old newspapers are available on microfiche and some on line. The print details often included details of the parents of the couple (even if deceased), origins, best man etc etc.Once you have the cert the print is well worth chasing up.

This marriage took place in 1830 so, unfortunately, there isn't going to be a certificate.

If you're not able to get to a Suffolk archives centre, maybe they will do a look-up for you.

The Society of Genealogists, Clerkenwell, also hold some records for Haverhill, if this is easier for you to get to.

Hi Margaret,

I have the Suffolk Baptism Index for Clare Deanery from 1754 to 1812 which includes Haverhill.
Although Maria could have been born in 1813 there are no Baptism's for the Branson surname in this area so Essex is looking a possibility.

Do you know if anyone has the names of the Witnesses to her Marriage to George Poole?

Kind regards
Amanda

Thank you all I have the parish record for the marriage of
George Poole to Maria Branson I will have to wait
for someone to read it to me to see who the
witnesses were.
Margaret

Day:05
Month:Nov
Year:1830
Groom Forename:George
Groom Surname:Poole
Groom's parish:
Groom's condition:
Bride Forename:Maria
Bride Surname:Branson
Bride's Parish:
Bride's condition:
Place:Haverhill
County:Suffolk
Country:England
Record source:Suffolk Marriage Index (1813-37)
Data provider:Suffolk Family History Society

(the above Find My Past, not much help though)

Chris :)

Burial
First name(s): Maria
Last name: POOLE
Date of burial 13 Jun 1849
Age at death: 37
Calculated year of birth: 1812
Place of burial Haverhill
Dedication: St Mary
County: Suffolk

Birth would be 1811 probably - if 37 at death in first quarter of 1849. Not born in Suffolk (C1841) so Essex nearby sounds a good bet - somewhere like Colchester.

Have you noticed baptism of 3rd child Hannah is at Old Meeting House Presbyterian in Haverhill (IGI). I think that chapel may still stand at CB9 9EF. The Independants/Presbyterians were probably about the wealthiest of the chapels and, as many have said, it was an area crawling with non-Conformist causes. Spurgeon (the great Baptist leader of 19th century) was born in that area and baptised as a child in the church where his grandfather Spurgeon was Minister. That was also independent (Sudbury possibly) and would have had fellowship with Haverhill.

Do you know where Maria was buried. If there is a burial place at Old Meeting House, she may be there and it may point to where her Branson family are buried. Either there or a nearby Independent chapel.

Likely father's name was William or James BRANSON (naming of children).

Presbyterians would have kept minute books of their meetings, I would have thought. Possibly a clue to her origins there. And their records of baptisms/funerals would probably be very detailed.

I have already posted (a) that Essex was a strong possibility and in particular Oakley between Colchester and Harwich and (b) strong poss. non conformist.

I grew up in the area and while it is very true that it was strongly non conformist (we all had to read John Bunyan at school ) it was mainly Wesleyan / Methodist / Quaker and not Presbyterian (Scottish) by the wildest stretch of the imagination. Presbyterianism would not have fitted in with the folk of the Colne Valley.

"Meeting House" would be Quaker. Who on earth pout that down as Presby. ?

Quakers Lane
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-466420-1-and-2-haverhill

them
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-466428-baptist-chapel-haverhill

main stream independent
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-466407-old-independent-church-haverhill

Rollo

Why Quaker? I know they also call their places Meeting Houses.

Why Scottish?

No, Haverhill had a good old meeting house for a church run by presbyters along independent lines. Each chapel was very independent and usually had a very professional and accomplished Minister. Charles Haddon SPURGEON was baptised at Stanbourne, Essex in 1834 by his grandfather - a famous dissenting Presbyterian/Independent Minister called Rev James SPURGEON. Is Stanbourne anywhere near Haverhill? Spurgeon was converted in a Primitive Methodist Chapel in Colchester and was baptised with a Baptist adult baptism in the River Lark near Lakenheath. At the end of a farm track, there is a small plaque noting his baptism. I know it was on May 2nd because I was, by pure coincidence, standing there on 2 May 1994 thinking how committed you had to be as a Christian to submerge yourself in that icy and fast flowing river.

I think The Old Prebyterian Meeting House would have become an Independent Chapel and then become United Reform latterly. There is an old URC chapel in Hamlet Road, which may be the one. Presbyterians would quake at the thought their ancestors might think they were Quakers:-)

"Old Independent URC Church,
Hamlet Road,
Haverhill
Suffolk

Cemeteries
The church does not have a graveyard.
Church History
It was founded in 1839.

In 1972 the Congregational church joined with the English Presbyterian church to become the United Reformed Church. Some Congregational churches though did not take this path and became members of the Congregational Federation. " (Ref Genuki)

Baptism of Maria's daughter was at Old Presbyterian Meeting House, so probably a building in which the congregation worshipped prior to chapel being built. It may even have been a redundant Quaker building that they used for a couple of years in 1830's, but I think Meeting House is a pretty generic term amongst dissenting causes.

I think Stambourne (where Spurgeon's grandfather James was Presbyterian/Independent Minister in 1830's and 1840's) is only about 6 miles from Haverhill, where Maria Branson's daughter Hannah was baptised at Presbyterian Old Meeting House.

So even possible the Rev James Spurgeon came over himself from Sambourne to conduct the baptism. It will be very interesting to get the details of that baptism.

Hannah POOLE (elder daughter of Maria BRANSON) was born 7 Dec 1834, was not baptised in parish church in Haverhill soon after birth like her two elder brothers. Think baptism was 15 Oct 1837 when she would have been nearly 3. Cannot find baptisms of younger siblings James b 1839 and Harriet b 1843 but would assume they would be in the new Presbyterian Church built in 1839 in Hamlet Road, Haverhill. I am sure there wil be detailed records somewhere of the Presbyterian Church in Haverhill.

I remember there was a Dr Williams Library in South London that had loads of old Puritan books, but don't know if they had any chapel records. These English Presbyterian chapels and Independent chapels mostly were built up by Church of England vicars (2,000 of them) who were sacked from Anglican Church in August 1662 with no job, no house and they lost a whole year's salary that they had almost earned. So they had to build up independent congregations and write Puritan books to keep the bailiffs at bay.

Rollo:-)

My favourite chapel in your neck of woods is The Church of the Peculiar People. I was driving in South Essex through Bradwell, I think. About 20 years ago. Suddenly I saw this little chapel proudly displaying its board "Church of the Peculair People" - a name taken from a Biblical passage "the peculiar people of God".

I saw an old man opposite and he was a deacon and proudly showed me his chapel. Yes, there has been a very special and unique chapel history in your area.

Not so easy for us family historians though. So much variety, so many places for records to vanish. :-)