Genealogy Chat

I recently found an ancestors grave ( Gwendolen Edith Carter ) in Shaldon Devon and discovered she was married to Col J.M. Wade R.E., A quick search on google revealed that Col Wade served with lawence of Arabia and a number of photos and his Arab headress had been sold by Bonhams for £2760 !!
However I have searched Ancestry and cannot find their marriage entry or indeed anything about Col Wade - he seems a bit of a mystery, i dont even know what his initials stand for.
I know Gwendolen ( Gwendoline?) died in India and her body returned to the UK as that is mentioned on her grave and Col Wade remarried and his second wife is buried in the same plot - which is a bit odd . Can anyone shed a bit more light on Col. Wade? Any help much appreciated..

Is this your J.M. Wade?

Published in the Reporter 3rd July 1915.

LIEUT. J.M.WADE.

Wounded in the Fighting in Dardanelles.

COMMANDING OFFICERS SON.

Second-Lieutenant J.M.WADE, son of Lieutenant-Colonel D.H.WADE, the commanding officer of the Ashton Territorials now at the Dardanelles, is officially reported to have been wounded in action. Lieutenant WADE displayed great courage in the bayonet charge on the Turkish trenches, which cost Captain HAMER and Lieutenant STRINGER their lives. His wound is not serious. It consists of a bayonet wound in the wrist. The information is conveyed in a cablegram which Mr. John Neal received from Col D.H.WADE on Saturday morning, from Alexandria. Lieut. WADE, who has taken his B.Sc, with honours, was studying for his M.Sc, when the war broke out. He was gazetted to the Ashton Territorials on September 2nd, 1914. He speedily became popular with the men, and his courage on the night of June 7th has earned for him the wholesale respect and admiration of the men. It is a curious trick of fate that both father and son should be put out of action at the same time.

The marriage?

Marriages Jun 1904 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CARTER Gwendolen Edith Newton A. 5b 267
Wade James Molesworth Newton A. 5b 267

Interesting ! I am not sure if it is him , i suspect it probably is as this was said about him on the Bonhams page:

By repute Lt. Col Wade fought alongside Lawrence in the Middle East Campaign advising in the demolition of Turkish troop trains, and is mentioned in the 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom

This is virtually all I have for him

The Marriage is correct thanks ! ,

Now we know his initials are James Molesworth , I couldnt find that on ancestry...

His probate?

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
about James Molesworth Wade Name: James Molesworth Wade
Probate Date: 9 Feb 1931
Death Date: 5 Dec 1930
Death Place: Essex, England
Registry: London, England

Original says of 20 Avon Rd., Upper Walthamstow, Essex. Probate to Johanna Louisa Anna Wade, widow. Effects 130 pounds, 14 shillings, 2 pence.

1911 Wales Census
about James Molesworth Wade Name: James Molesworth Wade
Age in 1911: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Portsmouth In, Hampshire, England
Civil parish: St Mary Tenby In Liberty
County/Island: Pembrokeshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: 6 Norton Tenby
Marital Status: Widowed
Years Married: 4
Estimated Marriage Year: 1907
Occupation: Lient Colonel Re
Registration district: Pembroke
Registration District Number: 601
Sub-registration district: Tenby
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Household schedule number: 79
Piece: 33143
Household Members: Name Age
William James 60
Mary James 56
Alice G James 27
James Molesworth Wade 48

He's a widower here.

Very interesting, Thanks very much for your help, i really appreciate it.

It must be him as I doubt there are two James Molesworths :-)
he seems to be living in Tenby a year after his wife died, he also seems a little old for her as she was born in 1883 . I wonder If he gave away his money prior to death as £130 doesnt seem a lot for a Col.

Marriages Dec 1921 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kretzschmer Johanna L A Wade West Ham 4a 891
Wade James M Kretzschmar W.Ham 4a 891


England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2006
about Johanna L A Wade Name: Johanna L A Wade
Birth Date: abt 1892
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1957
Age at Death: 65
Registration district: Stepney
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5d
Page: 640

Yes ! Thanks This is the second mystery wife buried with the first .

That surname doesnt look very english , I wonder If they met while he was at war ?

Appears to be only one person with the surname Kretzschmer on 1911 and they say born Paris

Slightly different spelling give Germany as place of birth

No it seems she was born here

Births Jun 1891 (>99%)
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Kretzshmar Johanna Louisa A Pancras 1b 5

No idea if this belongs to you but I post it because it connects the Wade and Molesworth surnames. It looks interesting anyway.

A genealogical survey of the peerage of Britain as well as the royal families of Europe

Person Page - 51509

http://thepeerage.com/p51509.htm

WARNING: this page is still under construction - it probably contains lots of typos and errors
Check it again in about 563 days and it should be fixed.

Lt.-Col. James Herne Wade1

M, #515081, d. 22 September 1908

Last Edited=30 Sep 2011
Lt.-Col. James Herne Wade married Catherine Molesworth, daughter of Colonel St. Aubyn Molesworth and Isabella Margaretta Waring, on 8 August 1861.1 He died on 22 September 1908.1
He gained the rank of Lieutenant-Colonel in the service of the 90th Light Infantry and 35rd Regiment.1


Citations
1.[S37] Charles Mosley, editor, Burke's Peerage, Baronetage & Knightage, 107th edition, 3 volumes (Wilmington, Delaware, U.S.A.: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 2003), volume 2, page 2729. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 107th edition.


Isabella Molesworth1

F, #515082, d. 7 November 1906



Last Edited=24 Sep 2011
Isabella Molesworth was the daughter of Colonel St. Aubyn Molesworth and Isabella Margaretta Waring.2 She married Captain Arthur George Fullerton on 29 October 1872.1 She died on 7 November 1906, without issue.1
From 29 October 1872, her married name became Fullerton.


Citations
1.[S37] Charles Mosley, editor, Burke's Peerage, Baronetage & Knightage, 107th edition, 3 volumes (Wilmington, Delaware, U.S.A.: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 2003), volume 2, page 2729. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 107th edition.
2.[S37] Charles Mosley, Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 107th edition.

More info on the page than this.

Could be her?

1901 England Census
about Anna Kretzschmar Name: Anna Kretzschmar
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Robert Kretzschmar
Mother's name: Johnnie Kretzschmar
Gender: Female
Where born: St Pancras, London, England

Civil parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: St Pancras
Sub-registration district: Regent's Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 68
Piece: 132
Folio: 145
Page Number: 8
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Kretzschmar 36
Johnnie Kretzschmar 30
Anna Kretzschmar 10
Alfred Kretzschmar 8
George Kretzschmar 5
George Bunger 27
Heinrich Bunger 25
Alfred Bochmchen 24
Nellie Read 24
Fanny Aubery 54
Harold Pink 18


1911 England Census
about Annie Kretzschmar Name: Annie Kretzschmar
Age in 1911: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: St Pancras
Civil parish: Hampstead
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 104 Fleet Road, Hampstead N W
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: MILLINER
Registration district: Hampstead
Registration District Number: 8
Sub-registration district: Hampstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Piece: 605
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Kretzschmar 46
Johanna Kretzschmar 40
Albert Fouquet 23
>>>Annie Kretzschmar 20
Alfred Kretzschmar 18
George Kretzschmar 15

Wow that is interesting , I searched the census and found the family in Eggbuckland devon so I am sure that is why he has the molesworth middle name.
Thanks for finding the peerage info - increadible

Just had a look through the peerage website - the Molesworth name goes back to 1542 , That going to save several years work ! :-)

WESTERN TIMES - Thursday 14 April 1904
"Marriages"

WADE - CARTER On the 11th inst. at St Michael's Church, Teignmouth, by the Rev. James Vesey, James Molesworth Wade, Major Royal Engineers, son of Lieut. Col. Wade of Exmouth, to Gwendolen Edith, youngest daughter of John Carter, Esq. Misterton, Teignmouth.

Reference the National Probate Calendar Effects 130 pounds, 14s 2 d

This does not mean that he only left £130 14 s, 2 d

My gran is listed on the National Probate Calendar in 1952 Effects £236 1s 2d

I have the a copy of the will plus final account and her estate including stocks and shares was £5634 12s 3d

took me some time to figure it out but the £236 1s 2d was made up of cash in 2 bank accounts and an insurance policy the rest was in stocks and shares



Roy

Actually, I'm not that sure that officers were all that well paid back then.

I do know that earlier in the 19th century officers had to BUY their positions, and have the money to pay their dues (officers quarters, meals, weapons, etc).

They then made money by looting.


There were also a lot of officers who had no money when they were released from the army after WW1




sylvia

1901

WADE, James H Head Married M 70 1831 Retired Lt Cot Late 90th L J
Beccles, Suffolk
WADE, Catherine Wife Married F 69 1832
Brixton, London
WADE, Hender M Son Single M 33 1868 Capt R E
Exeter, Devonshire
GORDON, Walter F Servant Single M 25 1876 Sick Attendant Domestic
Exeter, Devonshire
HOWELL, Anne Servant Single F 41 1860 Cook Domestic
Exmouth, Devonshire
HORRILL, Flora J Servant Single F 24 1877 Parlour Maid Domestic
Poundstock, Devonshire
Piece: 2028
Folio: 103
Page: 16
Registration District: St Thomas
Civil Parish: Littleham
Municipal Borough:
Address: 8, Morton Cresent, Littleham, Exmouth
County: Devonshire


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
about Catherine Wade
Name: Catherine Wade
Probate Date: 26 May 1911
Death Date: 19 Apr 1911
Death Place: Devonshire, England
Registry: London, England

(of 8, Morton Crescent, Exmouth. Probate to James Molesworth Wade Colonel R.E. and Harriet Lucinda Gastrell (wife of William Shaw Harriss Gastrell) and Caroline Ramsey widow. Effects £1849 16s.

James Herne death 1908, Hender Molesworth St Aubyn Wade death 1903.

(the above seem related)

Chris :)