Genealogy Chat

Hi there

I wonder if some kind person with knowledge of irish records will help me with this please.

I had been looking for over 12 months for a marriage of John Morgan to Alice Graham in 1909 (info found on irish census 1911).

The only marriage i could find on ancestry ireland was a John Campbell to Alice Graham in 1909 Co Down. I decided to get "John Morgan's" Birth info from ancestry ireland- and this is what i found on birth details: John Morgan married Alice Graham - John Morgan also known as John Campbell?

On ancestry ireland his parents marriage is a year before.? So what i'm asking is why John married under the Campbell surname?

regards

Celticqueen

Perhaps if you order the two marriage certificates it might shed some light.

I'm a little bit confused is it Alice husbands birth you got or their sons, either way what else does it say.

Hi there Maura

It's Alice's husband birth details i have got from ancestry ireland.

Birth Recorded as John Morgan.
says father F Morgan, Mother, Mary Campbell.

Comments on the bottom of the birth details say:-

Rev J Mcwilliams married alice graham and husband also known as john campbell.

I have john campbell (not morgan) & alice graham marriage details from ancestry ireland too.

Just wondering why he married under the campbell surname?

regards

celticqueen

Could his parents have split up and he was therefore known by his mother's maiden name but when he married decided he had better use his "proper" name Morgan?

Kath. x

hi kath

I don't really know - this is why its so confusing.

He married using the campbell surname in 1909 and by 1911 on the census was back to john morgan!!??

John & Alice's children go by the surname "morgan"!

Celticqueen :-S

Celticqueen...It could be as simple as he carried both surnames ...Campbell Morgan

Given his mother was a Campbell and his father a Morgan....it would not be uncommon to do so...

You would need to get the original Birth/ Baptismal Cert to clarify if he was registered as John Campbell Morgan....
"Transcriptions" dont always pick up "double" surnames.

The only John "Morgan" and Alice I have located 1911 (Co.Down) are living Mill Hill and they are brother and sister...?
Where did you find your John and Alice...?

Is this him with his grandfather

s1901DownDundrumAnnsborough TownResidents of a house
Residents of a house 49 in Annsborough Town (Dundrum, Down)
Show all informationSurname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses
Morgan John 15 Male Grand Son Roman Catholic Co Down Mechine Boy in Mill Read and write - Not Married -
Campbell John 67 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Down Farm Labourer Read only - Widower

There does'nt seem to be any other children to Francis & Mary, so they could of died when John was very young and he was reared with his mother's people, hence him being known more as a Campbell than Morgan.

Hi Eringobragh

I think this is my only option now to get the original birth certificate of John Morgan/Campbell and marriage certificate to see if there is further information on them.

On the 1901 Census - John Morgan - age 15 - is living with his Grandad John Campbell at 49 Annsborough Town, Dundrum, Co. Down.

On the 1911 Census John Murgan (mis-transcribed) & Alice are living with his mother-in-law at 11 Ballybannon, Dundrum, Co. Down.

regards

celticqueen

Hi Maura

Yes that's him with his grandad on the 1901 census.

I found him on 1911 census as previous post.

Like you - i cannot find any other siblings of john.

Still confusing the hell out of me! :-S

Celticqueen

Theres no birth coming up for a John Campbell Morgan, only John Morgan 1884 registered in Downpatrick.

I had a similar problem with one of mine, he was on the census as my granny's brother, but infact he was my granny's nephew, he was registered under his father's name, but was reared by my great grandparents and known by their name rather than his real name.

Hi Maura

So all in all do you think i should get both birth & marriage certificates to verify all this?

regards

celticqueen

Celticqueen...It may be worthwhile checking out the marriage of Mick Morgan (25yrs) and Rose Mulholland..they are living with the Mulholland's (Bernard) just a couple of doors up from John and his g.father 1901.....
Mick.is deceased by 1911 but Rose is still at home....
It may give a clue to whether they are related.....

Hi Eringobragh

Thanks for that info - never gave it a thought to check same area.

Will look into it.

regards

celticqueen

Truthfully its up to yourself, but I think your only going to get the same info. as the church record, but without the added information that was on the church record

Michael Morgan who married Rose mulholland father's a Eugen

Many thanks to Maura, Eringobragh, Kath & Slartibartfast for all your help with my topic.

Celticqueen

Celticqueen....Have cast my eye over the thread again and have I been searching for a "Francis" and Mary...??? Why I dont know...... as it only says F Morgan and Mary Campbell on John's MC...
Have you looked under Felix/Fred. as alternatives....or is it Francis.....???

hi eringobragh

its definately francis.

celticqueen

Celticqueen.....Thanks for that....thought I had lost the plot entirely..!!