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On doing some research in marriages I ran into a set of marriages that has me confused.
1) Marriage 1 has a marriage between Matthew Gibbons and Jane Calcraft on 30 Jan 1774 at St. Mary The Virgin Church, Dover, Kent, England. Indexing Batch Number M01463-3 Source film Number 1836144 Reference number 70
2) Marriage 2 is the marriage between Matthew Gibbons and Jane Chalcraft (note the different spelling from marriage 1) on 05 Feb 1774 Sibbertswold, Kent, England. Indexing Batch Number 104672-7 Source film number 1737008 Reference Number item 1.
These both came from Familysearch.org.
I am confused with this research. Are these two different marriages, did the same couple get married twice or is this one church wedding and one registration. Does anybody have any ideas about this.
Sincerely,
David C. Gibbons
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Was the first one the Banns?
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I am not sure what was happening here as there are two different names. (Calcraft and Chalcraft) It may be a spelling mistake. I am not sure if familysearch researches the Banns for a marriage.
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One appears to be a submitted entry (always look for the M0 for marriages on the IGI-they are the ones that have been filmed. )
Here's another one:
IGI
MATTHEW GIBBONS
Marriages:
Spouse: JANE CHALFONT
Family
Marriage:
05 FEB 1774 Shepherd'S-Well, Kent, England
Source Information:
Batch Number: 7525922
Sheet: 55
Source Call No.: 0884626
Maureen
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My guess is that the first date is Banns, and the second date is the actual marriage
The discrepancy in spelling could be due to one of two things
1. Most of our ancestors were illiterate, or semi-illiterate ............. even vicars were not exempt from making mistakes. If the bride and groom could not read, then they would not be able to correct the mistake.
2. It could be a mistake by the modern day transcriber ......... and you'd have to try to work out which is the correct spelling.
sylvia
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One can do a library catalog search at the FS site for the film #s:
Title Parish registers for St. Mary-the-Virgin Church, Dover, 1558-1951
Authors Church of England. St. Mary-the-Virgin Church (Dover, Kent) (Main Author)
Notes Microfilm of original records in possession of Canterbury Cathedral Archives, The Precincts, Canterbury, Kent.
Canterbury Cathedral Archives no.: U3/30/1/1-45, C9-10, 53, 56-57.
Note Location Film
Baptisms, 1558-1680; marriages, 1558-1641, 1645, 1656, 1660, 1663-1678; burials, 1558-1641, 1665-1678. FHL BRITISH Film 1836141 Items 10 - 11
Baptisms, 1679-1792. Marriages, 1679-1754. Burials, 1679-1795. Baptisms, 1793-1812; burials, 1795-1813. Baptisms, 1813-1826. FHL BRITISH Film 1836142
Baptisms, 1827-1893. FHL BRITISH Film 1836143
***Baptisms, 1893-1914. Banns & marriages, 1754-1803. FHL BRITISH Film 1836144
Banns & marriages, 1803-1813. Marriages, 1813-1842. FHL BRITISH Film 1836145
Marriages, 1843-Aug. 1861. FHL BRITISH Film 2354426 Items 5 - 7
Marriages, Aug. 1861-May 1902. FHL BRITISH Film 2354427
Marriages, June 1902-1951. Banns, 1813-Oct. 1822. FHL BRITISH Film 2354428
Banns, Aug. 1822-1951. FHL BRITISH Film 2354429
Marriages, 1843-1876 (another filming). FHL BRITISH Film 1836193
Marriages, 1876-1902 (another filming). Banns, 1813-1861 (another filming). FHL BRITISH Film 1836194
Burials, 1813-1887. FHL BRITISH Film 1836195
Burials, 1887-1916. FHL BRITISH Film 1836196 Items 1 - 2
Title Archdeacon's transcripts, 1564-1812; Bishop's transcripts, 1603-1898
Authors Church of England. Parish Church of Sibbertswold (Kent) (Main Author)
Notes Microreproduction of original records housed at the Canterbury Cathedral Archives, Canterbury, Kent.
Some early pages damaged.
The church was named for St. Andrew.
Canterbury Cathedral Archives no.: DCa/BT/171; DCb/BT1/214; DCb/BT2/276
Note Location Film
Archdeacon's transcripts: Baptisms, marriages and burials 1564-1812 (missing: 1565/6, 1568/9, 1569/70, 1571/2, 1586/7, 1594/5, 1606/7, 1629/30, 1640/1-1661/2, 1679/80, 1681/2, 1725/6, 1758/9, 1759/60, 1781/2, 1786/7, 1787/8) FHL BRITISH Film 1752160 Item 1
***Bishop's transcripts: Baptisms, marriages and burials 1603-1812 (missing: 1604/5-1610/1, 1613/4, 1621/2, 1627/8 1640/1, 1642/3-1661/2, 1681/2, 1698/9, 1768/9, 1772/3) FHL BRITISH Film 1737008 Item 1
Bishop's transcripts contd.: Baptisms and burials 1813-1857, 1859-1872 1874-1878, 1898 Marriages 1813-1837 FHL BRITISH Film 1835700 Item 1
So it looks like Sylvia is correct - the Sibbertswold film only has marrs whereas the Dover film has marrs and banns. Usually the marr took place in the bride's parish, but banns would need to be proclaimed in the parishes of both the bride & groom.
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One entry could also be from the Bishop Transcipts entry, the other from the Parish Registers,,,giving two different dates of entires for the same couple.
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Hi Folks,
since I am from Canada I seem to be confused as to what are Bishop's transcripts, Parish registers and Archdeacons transcripts. If I was to order transcripts which would I order. Being born in Canada I am not familiar with the system in England. Where would I order these types of transcripts.
Sincerely,
David C. Gibbons
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David
I don't think you can order transcripts
The Parish Registers are what is found in every church, and carries the records of baptism, marriages and deaths. The older ones are kept in various places in the diocese, more recent ones may be in the church or in the safe-keeping of the parish priest.
Bishop's and Archdeacons transcripts are much older.
They are all available on the internet only when transcribed by volunteers.
you can look at them online .......... follow mgnv's information
OR you may be able to contact your local LDS Centre, and ask for the microfilms or microfiches to be brought in for a loan .............. you will then have a matter of weeks to look at them.
Unfortunately, I don't have an LDS Centre close to me that I can contact for this!
sylvia
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Got to the FS homepage and (in the centre col) look for an LDS FHC in your province - hopefully it's local. Here we can also order the LDS films thru the main library downtown, but that's a bit unusual.
From my post, you'll see the originals are in the Canterbury Cathedral Archives. Another common archive is the appropriate county records office.
Sylvia's not quite right abt which are older. The BTs (or ADTs) are the church's own backup copies of the OPRs. They have often survived better than the original OPRs - possibly this is why Sylvia formed her miscomprehension (but clearly even the bishop's clerks can't transcribe parish registers which don't yet exist). A clerk would periodically go round to the church, transcribe the OPRs, then the vicar and clerk would sign the last page saying they were a true copy for such and such a period.
There are some free images of BTs and OPRs online, e.g., Cornwall, Norfolk, Durham/Northumberland, Greater Manchester, but not for this part of Kent. See:
https://www.familysearch.org/s/collection/list#page=1®ion=EUROPE
Sibertswold (or Shepherdswell as it's now usually called) is abt 10km NW of Dover, on the N Downs Way, just off the road to Canterbury.
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/613760
[the blue grid lines on the inset map are 1km apart]
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For Scottish records it is quite common for there to be two dates for the same marriage and two different places. I always, rightly or wrongly, assumed that these were the dates of the banns in the Groom's parish and the Bride's parish if they lived in different parishes. This can also account for different name spellings.
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.............. and, of course, in some religions and some countries, there would indeed be two marriages, which could cause confusion.
Isn't it France where there is a civil marriage and a religious one?
My daughter's best friend is of an eastern religion. She married someone of another eastern religion. They got married in her place of worship on Saturday, and in his on Sunday
There would be two different dates for both these situations, depending on where you looked for the information.
This of course would be confusion only for future generations of genealogists, not really for us.
sylvia
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