Genealogy Chat

Linda
I will be going into the Mormon Chuch family history centre, probably tomorrow and will see what I can find out for you.

If Glenda is interested, she could always try the Mormon place herself - they have computers and free access to Ancestry and possibly some other sites that I'm not aware of. I've been using it for 10 years and not once have they tried to sign me up, indeed, some of the volunteers are not members of the church.

I've lived in Hull for 30 years and have no ancestry here apart from a brief sojourn by my ggGrandad who was Colour Sergeant of the East Yorkshire regiment. I think I'd sorted out the Spurling thing in my own head (I think Spurling was her second husband) but I'll have another look.

Best wishes
Kim

Isabella Foggin birth
Easington 1851 Apr-Jun qr vol 24 p179

There were a lot of Isabella Foggins (and variants) who married between 1865 and 1891 - not one to a William Spurling (1891 census), so either she married someone else and he was her second husband, or maybe they were not married. Lets not forget they were nearly all seafarers and the turnover was, sadly, very high.

There was a Maria Mugridge born in Hull in 1891 but died in 1893 - must be another one of Richard's.

Best wishes

Kim

Hello Kay,

I have tried to get the 1901 census for Alice J Mugridge (the original transcript) but get a wrong image. It should be St. Johns Newington but I get St. Andrews? This is on Ancestry. Do you belong any other genealogy site. If so would it be possible to forward me a copy ?

Much appreciated.
Regards Linda

Linda,

Done.

William Spurling who was the partner of Isabella, died in Hull in 1892. Isabella died 1908.

Please don't get too carried away with the putative Bombay link: there is only one reference I can see, the 1891 census, where she is alleged to have been born in Bombay. My GGgrandad, in the 1911 census and in the register for his second marriage, claimed to have been born in Bombay in 1850, son of an officer in the Hussars. He was actually born in Chipping Norton in 1848, son of an agricultural labourer! Oh and he changed his forename, too. I think sometimes they were just having a laugh.

I note on the same census that William Spurling is stated to have been born in Aldbrough, Yorks. I've checked the census for 1851/1861/1871 and there were no Spurlings in East Yorkshire. Spurling is a surname, very much like my own, which is rooted very firmly in Norfolk and Suffolk and I suspect he came from Aldeburgh in Suffolk or Aldborough in Norfolk and the enumerator has just made an assumption.

Nightmare, eh?

Will let you know how I get on tomorrow, should be able to come up with some burials, MIs and hopefully some baptisms :-)

I have checked the complete BMD index to see if your Mary Ann's siblings were registered and I found the correct forenames in the correct order and years. I am therefore 99.9% certain that your Mary Ann Foggin was registered in Easington, Jan-Mar qr of 1849 vol 24 pg 135

And that her daughter was registered as Margaret Foggin in Easington, Jan-Mar qr 1873 vol10a pg 503

Hello Kay,

I have just received more info on the Mugridges from Glenda. She has sent me copies of Richard Mugridges Pension claim dated March 1901. This is a Royal Naval Reserve Force Pension. It gives a wealth of info about him even his tattoos! He then gets another pension in 1903 and give two addresses where he had lived. First one 1901 is 6 Myton Street and the second is 1902 he is living in 4 George Place, Coach and Horses Yard, Mytongate. He had three young sons on the 1891 census Arthur 9, George 5 and John 3. I do not know where they were on the 1901 census. Someone must have been looking after them.
All for now.
Linda.

I am sending a pm to Linda with some information relating to Hull burial records but there are some things which have me stumped at present.

We have a Mary Ann Foggin born in Seaham, Durham in 1849. She has a daughter, Margaret Foggin (Mary in the 1891 census, Margaret in the 1901) before marrying Richard Mugridge in Co Durham in 1875. In 1861, Mary Ann is at home with her parents but I can find no trace of her in any of the censuses which follow.

In 1891, Margaret, who has by then married Frederick James Adams, is in Hull, living with her aunt Isabel(la) Spurling and her husband William. Also in the house is William Mugridge (43), Richard Mugridge (40) and Richard's three sons Arthur (9), George (registered as George Henry, 5) and John (registered as James Richard, age 3).

The absences of the menfolk on the census returns is not surprising as they were all seafarers but the younger Mugridge children should be somewhere on the 1901 at least. So should their mother and a sister, Alice Jane Mugridge (born 1882, Middlesbrough) but Alice doesn't appear until 1901! There was a further child, Maria, born to Richard Mugridge in 1891 (died 1893) so unless he took up with someone else, Mary Ann should still be in Hull somewhere.

I have looked at the burial of a Mary Ann Mugridge in Hull in 1911; the age is out (68 years, it should be 62) but by the time she died her daughter had decamped to Cardiff and it may be that she did not have anyone local who knew enough about her. Or perhaps this was another Mary Ann, the wife of William Mugridge or a second partner of Richard.

I did find a Mary Ann Mugridge lodging in Liverpool in 1901, right age but claiming to be single and from Norfolk: it is tempting to think that she was the estranged wife of Richard.

In summary, we're looking for Mary Ann Foggin, (b Seaham, 1849) in 1871.
Mary Ann Mugridge and Margaret Foggin (b Seaham, 1873) in 1881.
Mary Ann Mugridge in any subsequent census.
Alice Jane Mugridge (b 1882) in 1892
Arthur Mugridge (1883? though I wonder if he is a child of William); George Henry Mugridge (1885) and James Richard Mugridge (1888) in 1901 and 1911

Hi,

Note that Arthur born 1883 is born in the same place as Alice Jane....... makes me think that Arthur in 1891 was actually Alice Jane???

Dee x

I am very impressed by your detective work Kim. Been offline for a while with an eye problem. I wonder if the boys were at sea in 1901. I think based on the 1911 census below they took after their father and went to sea.

Edit - like Dea's suggestion re Alice J being Arthur. There is a birth for Alice J but none that I could see for Arthur.

1911

MUGRIDGE, George Henry Head Married M 25 1886 Fisherman Scarbrough VIEW
MUGRIDGE, Lily Wife Married
6 years F 23 1888 Hull Yorkshire VIEW
MUGRIDGE, Margaret Isabella Daughter F 6 1905 School Hull Yorkshire VIEW
MUGRIDGE, Lily Caroline Daughter F 5 1906 School Hull Yorkshire VIEW
MUGRIDGE, James Henry Son M 0 (2 MONTHS) 1911 Glamorgan Cardiff VIEW
MUGRIDGE, James Richard Brother Single M 23 1888 Fisherman Scarbrough VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
32129 Reference:
RG14PN32129 RG78PN1846 RD588 SD3 ED30 SN294

Registration District:
Cardiff Sub District:
Central Cardiff Enumeration District:
30 Parish:
Cardiff

Address:
28 Margaret St Cardiff County:
Glamorganshire

Thanks, Dee, it's certainly possible, though I wonder if Arthur was one of four born around 1882 in Sussex and is the son of William Mugridge, who is married according to the census but whose wife is also strangely absent. These folks changing their names and places of birth is bad enough but changing sex as well is really scary! I thought my lot were bad enough for that sort of thing... :-)

BWs

Kim
In Hull

Not changing sex of course!

And thanks, K...I did'nt look in Welsh Wales!

BWs

Kim

Linda, 29 Adelaide Street, the address of the informants for the burials of Richard Mugridge and Mary Ann, was an undertaker's (per 1911 census)

The address given for Mary Ann Mugridge who was buried in 1911 was 9 Edwin's Place, Porter Street, Hull. I've been trying to do an address search on FMP to no avail - it only shows no 12 Edwin's Place.....am I doing something wrong?
Haven't used address search before.
BWs

Kim

Used Ancestry as an index...found the family as MUGGERAGE. Details follow

RG14 pc

MUGGERAGE, Mary Ann 66yrs widow b Sunderland
MUGGERAGE Alice dau 28yrs b South Bank
BIGGLEY Charles lodger 43yrs dock labourer b Hull
MUGGERAGE Charles son of Alice 6yrs b Hull
MUGGERAGE Arther son of Alice 3 mo b Hull

9 Edwins Place, Porter Street, Hull

Someone has drawn a line through married 31 years, 6 children born alive, 4 still living, two died

Linda - I'll email a copy

Hello Everyone,

Thank you all so much for all your help. I have passed all this info onto my cousin Glenda in Hull. She actually went herself to the Carnegie Center armed with all this info. Have not heard from her since then.

Thank you all once again for your help.

Must get back to mine now. Mine is a total mystery. I am searching for any info other than census 1871, 1861 and 1851 for Gervase/Gervas/Jarvis/Jervis Robinson. Born Hook 1837. Father William mother Jane. He was in the 5th Dragoon Guards. He married Mary Loughead/Lougheed in Ireland I have marriage cert in 1865. The have one child in Ireland Jervis Frederick Robinson. He died in Leeds in 1869. My grandmother Jane Ann Elizabeth Robinson born Aldershot Barracks 1868 married James Robert Gardiner 1887 in Hull. There is absolutely no trace of the family in 1881. She was lodging with a Whittaker family when she married my grandad. Where did her parents vanish to after the 1871 census and her?
Must go now to look for any info on them.
Regards Linda

Hi Linda, Do you have your own thread? Your search deserves to have its own title so anyone who is able to help can see it. If you leave it hidden away in probably the middle of the "Bombay Birth" thread, no one apart from those who are helping with this thread will know you need help with your Robinson family.

Oh dear, does that all make sense.

To start you off, have you googled 5th Dragoon guards. Sometimes the military sites have info about their personnel. But before you reply, remember, start your own thread!!

Try another post, Linda!

Oh and Mary Ann Foggin was with her parents James and Isabella in 1871 - I know you have Ancestry so won't put the details here. I assume you mean Hook near Goole? Not sure whether the Hull LDS has the registers for that but I'll ask when I go next week.

You asked me if I had any experience of The Genealogist website: when I was at the flagship LDS centre in Hyde Park last year I had a go with it (they have free access to the major sites) and although they have some things the others don't have, I much prefer Ancestry and Findmypast. I actually prefer the search on Ancestry because it's more flexible than FMP (I often find people on Ancestry I can't find on FMP and occasionally vice versa). If you get the chance of a free trial, why not try them out - just don't forget to cancel your card before the trial is up!
BWs

Kim

BTW if Dad was still in the army in 1881, they were possibly abroad - mine don't show up in '81 either: they were in Ireland.

Kim