Genealogy Chat

Thanks Janet she was from Chelsea. :-)

Thanks for info
I will have another look tomorrow as it is getting late.

Was Ivy Cooper from Hackney or Chelsea,just to confirm as there appears to be two possibilities-j

Actually I just checked the Birth Certificate and yes it is on the Certificate as well as the other notes I have. Lou

The address isn't on the birth certificate it is on records that I got from Ivy House on the birth it gave Annie Brazier's address and it doesn't name the other Aunt but give an address so I wish I could see if Edith was living in this address at the time.
Louise

So are you saying that in addition to the address of the maternity home on the birth certificate that there is a home address where one of these aunts lived.?-j

Hi Janet
It certainly is a mystery.
The birth certificate I have is not the original it is a copy.
The notes I have from the birth of Frank Edwin Cecil Gay is that Lily's Aunty brought her to Ivy House to have the baby and that she was only 16 years old. It also says that another Aunty is going to take the baby off her hands to give her a second chance. It mentions one of the Auntys Names which is Mrs Brazier who is Edith Gay's sister and the address is correct for Mrs Brazier.
That is why I think the mother is Ivy Cooper as Ivy's mother had died by this stage and Ivys mothers two sister (her Aunty's) were Annie Cecilla Brazier nee Cleak and Edith Louisa Gay nee Cleak.
I just wish I could find a decsendant of one of the Coopers hoping they know the story as unfortuneately the secret has died with them.
Louise

Hi Louise....what a mystery for you.... can I just confirm that the birth cert is the original, i.e the one from 1908 or is it a copy which was sent for at a later date?
Regarding the entry on the 1911 census, most census were filled out by the householder so they would have been fully aware that they were entering the childs name as Edward Parke Gay and that Parke would be significant. Its not like an enumerator mis-hearing a name and writing what he thought was said. It needs to be sorted why that name was entered-jl

Hi Janet
My family and I are starting to believe that the mothers name is a made up name. We are 99% sure we have the right birth certificate as I have the notes from the birth of the person on the birth certificate that I have and the details fit with being my grandfather.
What do you mean when you say that the middle name on the census will not be an accident.
Thanks again for your help. :-)

Hi Louise

Looking at the information which has already been stated.

1. The mother's name has been made up- a possibility but unusual.
2.The name of Frank Edwin Gay could be the person on the census found by Lynski
3. The middle name written on the 1911 will not be an accident.

Whilst I am not saying that you have sent for the wrong birth certificate I know that my own grandfather's father was entered as the middle name but didn't appear on his birth certificate.

Perhaps it is time to ask for another second opinion.......any thoughts anybody? - jl

Hi Janet
This is the right record for my family but I dont understand why it says Edward Parke Gay I dont know what that is about.
So many lies or secrets very frustrating.
Louise

Louise , is this the 1911 census that you are referring to?

If yes, this is the first time that people filled in their own census. The name Edward Francis Gay has been mentioned but this is clearly written Edward Parke(r) Gay

1911 Census
Frank Henry Gay 42 ? Exeter
Edith Gay 39 Worcestershire
Florrie Meek 22 Marylebone
George Meek 25 Fulham
Edward Parke Gay 2 Hackney
Living at St James Road Islington

Janet after looking on the internet I think it was Mare Street I think it was called Ivy House Maternity Hosptial.
I so wish it had the fathers name on the Certificate. :(

Hi Janet
It says he was born at a Maternity Hospital in Hackney I cant read the name of the street just that the number was 271 ______ Hackney.
Thanks Louise

Can I just confirm that when you sent for his birth cert where it said that his mother was Lily that it was registered in Hackney in 1908?- jl

Thank you so much Mr Magoo I do have this already but I am so grateful for your help.

Thank you to everyone who has helped I am going to sit down and go through it all. It is so nice to have people that like to help others I really love helping other people with their family tree's also.

Thanks again everyone.

Not sure if this is any help............from FreeBMD.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1889 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cakebread Hannah Pancras 1b 111
Cleak Edih Louisa Pancras 1b 111
Cleak Edith Louisa Pancras 1b 111
GAY Frank Henry Pancras 1b 111
Gilbert Eli Frederick Pancras 1b 111

I have given you some marriage details for Emily's children so to find any grandchildren you could use

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

to find the children of these marriages - just enter the surnames such as Cooper and Rickman to see what you get.

I just tried it and found 1 birth in 1916 in Fulham.

I have sent you a personal message with a possible marriage and children.

A second look at the 1911 shows that Edith enters that she has been married 23 years although I think that should read 22, (1889)the same age as their daughter. She also enters the child Edward as her son, not an adoptive son. It appears that the child could be the daughters as it was a practice to pretend the child was the mothers in order to keep up appearances. -jl

When I look at the 1911 census the name of the child appears to be Edward Parke Gay and when I look at the freebmd for Edward Parke I have found an Edward Parker Dec 1908 ref 1b 454 Hackney.
As Gwyn has found the Francis Gay born Hackney could it be that the wrong birth cert has been sent for?-jl

Thank you so much again I really do appreciate your help.
You have the right Census they are the right names for the Cooper's but I didn't realise she had 12 children I have only found 9.
Sorry Annie was married before his surname was Marshall but I dont know his first name.
I am not sure about Emily and William Coopers marriage I thought a relative told me they were married but none of us have been able to find the marriage.
I would really love to find some grandchildren of Emily's to see if they know anything but I haven't found any yet.
Thank you so much again for your help.