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Irish ancestor - British subject

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Patricia

Patricia Report 15 Jul 2011 13:55

Hi
anyone know what the relevance is of 'British subject' on the 1851 census for my ancestor (William Bragg) who was born in Tipperary? Does this imply maybe his parents were from England, or was it a general term? (The only thing I know about Irish history is the 1921 separation of North and South to form what we now know as the Republic)
He was born in 1798 so I'm not going to find his parents easily!
I have looked at some Irish records websites and can't see Bragg as an Irish name.
Thanks, Pat
(so pleased to have someone in her tree who came from more than a couple of miles from where they were in her parents generation!)

wisechild

wisechild Report 15 Jul 2011 14:01

Pat.
Could be that his father was in the army,stationed in Ireland & that´s why he was born there. It wasn´t unusual for wives to go with their husbands, or maybe his father was married to an Irish woman.
Not really sure why he should be specifically shown as British Subject though because as you say, it was all the same thing until 1921.
Marion

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 15 Jul 2011 16:27

Pat....There was a Robert Braggs listed in Thurles 1796....
Also a the following for the Co Cork...

At Killeagh, by the Rev. Archdeacon Alcock, Mr. John Dowling of Passage, to
the agreeable Miss Bragg, of said place.

Patricia

Patricia Report 25 Jul 2011 22:44

Thanks for the tips! I'll keep looking!

AllanC

AllanC Report 27 Jul 2011 17:28

Yes, an interesting question that doesn't seem to have any easy answers. One of my 2x great grandfathers was Irish, but his birthplace is shown on different censuses as Ireland (1841 census), "Canada - British Subject" (1851) and Ireland again (1861).
Two possible explanations come to mind:
(a) in 1851 he invented the Canada story in case the authorities wanted to send him back to Ireland, this being just after the Irish potato famine, as he knew his accent would give him away if he claimed to have been born in England; or
(b) he really was born in Canada but the enumerators in 1841 and 1861 didn't bother to ask - they just assumed by his accent he was born in Ireland.
But neither of these explain why "British Subject" should be added. Neither Ireland nor Canada were independent at that time, and France had ceded all its Canadian possessions to Britain long before my 2x great grandfather was born.
Very puzzling.

Margaret

Margaret Report 3 Aug 2011 10:34

Hi there,

Ireland gained independence from the UK in 1921. Up until then all the peoples of the 4 countries (England Ireland Scotland and Wales) would have their own individual nationality however collectively they were "British Subjects".

I hope I have explained that ok.

Mags

Patricia

Patricia Report 3 Aug 2011 22:55

Cheers!