Genealogy Chat

This certainly could be my Elizabeth, I'm not seeing her in the 1861 census and still not getting any closer to finding her connected to any McKie / Kie or working out this connection the GUIRLES names (which is such an unusual name for that part of the country).

Now I look over everything again, I am not 100% sure that the 5 y.o. Peter KIE with the GUILRES family is mine. Why would a 5 y.o. have a different name to the one he was born with and living with someone else of a third different name? I could understand if she had child very young who was sent to live with grandparents but you would expect them to be MARTIN as well? Maybe grandmother remarried, but this one in my record is REID so I think that is a red herring possibly?

And I'm spending too many credits going off in the wrong direction now following wrong lines!!

Well that Margaret Guirles/Reid died in Stranear in 1917 doing a free search but there doesn't seem to be a Martin in her name at all?

There is this one? Could it be your Elizabeth?
1871 Census
Name: Elizabeth Martin
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relationship: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Stoneykirk, Wigtonshire
Registration Number: 898
Registration district: Stoneykirk
Civil Parish: Stoneykirk
County: Wigtownshire
Address: Low Ardwell
Occupation: General Serv
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 28
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1871_190
Household Members: Name Age
James Spens 37
Agnes Spens 27
Fergus John Spens 4
Jessie Martin Spens 2
Margt Sawick 46
Elizabeth Martin 18
Ellen Cummings 20
John Muir 18
John Green 36

Yes could be Margaret's grandson, she could have remarried??

So if I assumed Peter, aged 5 is living with grandparents, then my next step is to try and locate a Peter and Elizabeth McKie in the 1881 census who I assume must be married at this point for the son to have taken the name?

That might be my next enquiry, to look for marraige of Elizabeth Martin & Peter McKie (or Kie).

How do you manage to do all this research, do you have free searches available?

There is this marriage which is probably theirs...

1 1864 GUIRLES ANDREW REID MARGARET STRANRAER /WIGTOWN 899/00 0033

Don't quite know where I am going with this but perhaps someone else can work out a link???

I've had a look at the image Christine thinking it must be mistranscribed but it is Kie on the image..... Drat! But I can't say I've ever heard of the name have you?

Going to do some more searching.....

EDIT:
Yes there are a few births on scotlandspeople for KIE but there are no births for a Peter Kie at all.
Also Andrew Guirles seems far too young to have a 5 year old grandson...he would have been about 31 when this Peter was born?
Margaret on the other hand would have been old enough wouldn't she?
So could it be her grandson?

Name: Peter Kie
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relationship: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Stoneykirk, Wigtonshire
Registration Number: 891
Registration district: Leswalt
Civil Parish: Leswalt
County: Wigtownshire
Address: Newfield Farm Ho
ED: 9
Household schedule number: 19
Line: 24
Roll: cssct1881_334
Household Members: Name Age
Andrew Guirles 37
Margaret Guirles 48
Peter Kie

That's great news Christine! I'm so chuffed for you :-)

I had to go and to do some dreaded housework and you've found him while I was away!

Now...... I think Peter senior is more than likely to be the father don't you?

Cathy,

Thank you so much!!! THIS IS IT. Illegitimate child registered with mother's maiden name MARTIN which is what's on his death record so tha's definitely correct. I guess in my inexperience I never though to do the search under MARTIN.

Now my next questions is, is Peter Snr, actaully his father and they weren't married at the time of his birth so it's registered as illegitimate? Or did Elizabeth by coincidence go on to marry someone called Peter? What do you think more likely?

mgnv, thank you for the links to Cook County, I already had those details and copy of the marraige license,

Again, not what you asked for, but...

The GRO(I) index thru 1958 (excl N. Ireland post-partition) is available at:
https://www.familysearch.org/s/collection/list#page=1®ion=EUROPE

A typical hit is:

Name: Agnes Muckle
Registration District: Newtownards
Event Type: BIRTHS
Registration Quarter and Year: 1869
Estimated Birth Year:
Age (at Death):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101046
Volume Number: 6
Page Number: 973
Digital Folder Number: 4187286
Image Number: 00318

There's also an 1868 birth, and an 1871 birth for Agnes Sarah Park Muckle, all at Newtownards.

With the year, RD, vol & page #, you can order a b.cert, just like for England. (Actually, it's cheaper to get an uncertified image of the registration.) See:
http://www.groireland.ie/

Not what you asked for, but you can search Illinois (Cook County Marriages) at:
https://www.familysearch.org/s/collection/list#page=1®ion=NORTH_AMERICA

and get an image. You will know from Andy's b.cert if this is the right one:

Groom: Peter Mckie
Groom's Age: 23
Groom's Estimated Birth Year: 1872
Groom's Birth Date: 1872
Bride: Agnes Muckle
Bride's Age: 25
Bride's Estimated Birth Year: 1870
Bride's Birth Date: 1870
Marriage Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 18 Nov 1895
Marriage Place: Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Film Number: 1030257
Frame Number:
Digital Film Number: 4273420
Image Number: 643
Reference Number: 241378

And is this him Christine?

When did your Great grandad Peter die and what age was on the certificate?

1891 Census
Name: Peter McKie
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relationship: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Stoneykirk, Wigtownshire
Registration Number: 896
Registration district: Portpatrick
Civil Parish: Portpatrick
County: Wigtownshire
Address: Sow Knockglass Farm House
Occupation: Farm Servant
ED: 3
Household schedule number: 8
Line: 16
Roll: CSSCT1891_407
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas McCracken 49
Elizabeth McCracken 36
Bessie McCracken 15
Janet McCracken 13
Maggie McCracken 11
Martha F McCracken 8
Grace McCracken 5
Mary McCracken 3
Agnes McCracken 2
Peter McKie 16

Yes Cathy, this is DEFINITELY him. Andrew (age 1) is my grandfather.

No record in the 1911 census in England so I am pretty certain that by 1911 they are back in Scotland and, of course the 1911 Scotland census is not available yet.

Have all death records for the 3 children, all of whom died in Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland.

Where do I go from here?

So this is definately him Christine?

Do you have him in the 1911 Census?

1901 census - household transcription
Person: MCKEE, Peter
Address: Hermitage Street, Crewkerne
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MCKEE, Peter Head Married M 26 1875 Cheese Maker Scotland
MCKEE, Agnes Wife Married F 30 1871 Ireland
MCKEE, Andrew Son Single M 1 1900 Scotland
MCKEE, May Daughter Single F 8 1893 America U S Brit Subj
MCKEE, Margaret Daughter Single F 5 1896 America U S Brit Subj
MCKAY, Matilda Boarder Single F 24 1877 Butter Maker Scotland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number: RG13 Piece: 2295 Folio: 44 Page: 8

Registration District: Chard Sub District: Crewkerne
Enumeration District: 3 Ecclesiastical Parish: Crewkerne
Civil Parish: Crewkerne Municipal Borough:

Thank you so much for all your efforts, greatly appreciated!!

Oh well mgnv and Christine, back to the drawing board!!!

Merry Christmas to you all,

Cathy x

Cathy, this is a very interesting line but I'm pretty certain not mine. The 1901 is definitely not him as I know for certain that in the 1901 census, Peter, his wife and their children are in Somerset, England having had a third child born in Stranraer, Scotland. So I guess that discounts the previous 3 census as they are obviously all the same person??

I thought my roots were definitely in the Stranraer / Wigtownshire area.

I would say it's worth burning a quid's worth of credits to check that Peter didn't marry the widow Winning MS Martin.

this looks like the birth for the above Peter but has this one been been discounted too?

1 1870 MACKIE PETER M RUTHERGLEN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 654/00 0169


And this could be the marriage so not yours Christine? Drat!!!

1 1870 MACKIE PETER WINNING ELIZABETH RUTHERGLEN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 654/00 0008

Thanks Cathy. Yes these have been discounted due to non matching parents names. Father was PETER MCKIE/McKEE, mother was ELIZABETH m.s. MARTIN.

Pretty sure original spelling is McKIE which was changed to McKEE by Peter Jnr. on his return from being in USA. He returned from USA, having married in Chicago.

This is why I'm keen to follow this line as he went through Ellis Island, married in USA and returned to Scotland with a wife and 2 children so it's quite an interesting line to follow.

Hi Christine,

There is a Peter McKee born 1872 and another in 1870 on scotlandspeople.... have you discounted these?