Genealogy Chat

Hi Potty
I know its a difficult one but thanks for helping anyway. The William Sandilands living with Jessie is her sister Isabellas illigitimate son, Jessie and Isabella are living next door to each other in the 1851 census her sister was Isabelle Ritchie and her husband Gideon Ritchie.

Sorry Dawn, I have been away for a couple of days. I cannot find anything.

I see that in 1861 Jessie is living in Kirkwynd, the same street as Andrew and Isabella!

I did wonder if Jessie and Andrew had had an "irregular marriage" but he wouldn't have been able to marry Isabella.

I did try to find out about the nephew William Landilands but so far nothing.

Also, I cannot find Andrew before his marriage!

Hi Helen
I do have the 1851 census sheet from SP for Jessie and she is down as born in Selkirk, the 2 people above her next door on the form are given as born in Hamilton Lanarkshire so who ever has transcribed it must of read it incorrectly, it definately says selkirk though as i have just checked again.
Andrews parents names are William Hatlie and Jean/Jane Stevenston. William died in 1826 and Jean in 1855 both in Selkirk.
Thanks.xx

Do you have Andrew's parents names ... from his marriage and death certificate.


The 1851 census Paula sent is from Freecen ... the same place I got Andrew in the 1841 census info.

It does seem odd they have Jessie born in Hamilton in Lanarkshire. The only way you could verifiy which 1851 census is correct is if you download and read for yourself, the original image from Scotlandspeople.

Helen
I have seen this entry for Andrew before but he is the wrong age, my Andrew was born in 1809 Selkirk the above Andrew was born in 1816 according to his age.
PaulaW,
Were did you find this entry for the 1851 census, it cannot be correct as i have the family in 1851 living in selkirk and Jessie is down as born in the same parish.

Possible for Andrew in 1841 ?

Piece: SCT1841/785 Place: Cavers -Roxburghshire Enumeration District: 5
Civil Parish: Cavers Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 5 Page: 3
Address: Priesthaugh Stables

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
HEATLEY Andrew M 25 Agricultural Labourer Roxburghshire
PATTERSON James M 20 Agricultural Labourer Roxburghshire
ELLIOTT William M 55 Labourer Roxburghshire
LEES Richard M 20 Agricultural Labourer Outside Census County (1841)

???

Piece: SCT1851/778 Place: Selkirk -Selkirkshire Enumeration District: 2
Civil Parish: Selkirk-Burgh Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Selkirk
Folio: 0 Page: 53 Schedule: 224
Address: Kirkwynd East Side



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
THORBURN Jessie Head U F 41 Seamstress Lanarkshire - Hamilton
HATELIE Janet Dau - F 13 Selkirkshire - Selkirk
HATELIE James Son - M 9 Selkirkshire - Selkirk
HATELIE Andrew Son - M 5 Selkirkshire - Selkirk
HATELIE John Son - M 10m Selkirkshire - Selkirk
LANDLANDS William Nephew U M 25 Flesher Selkirkshire - Selkirk

Bumped for Potty.xx

Mmmmm. I've got a stocking knitter.....I wonder what,she really did then lol

Marion

Hi Potty
Thankyou for helping with this i really appreciate it. That is the correct family in 1841 and 1851 i thought it was strange Jessie is down as Thorburn and her chikdren are all Heatlies as well. Andrew never married Jessie but he did marry Isabella Fairgreive in 1860 Galashiels but as far as i can tell they didnt have children together.Andrew was given as a batchelor on the marriage certificate. Andrew died in 1865 Selkirk. I have looked on the 1841 and 1851 census but i cannot find Andrew anywhere, he is with Isabella in 1861 though. Jessie died in 1889 Selkirk as a single woman and her son John Thorburn Heatlie is present at the death.
Also if it helps Jessies 4 illigitimate children must of known who their father was because on Andrew and Isabellas marriage certificate Andrew Heatlie, Andrew an Jessies son is down as a witness. Jessie is also written down as Jessie heatlie m/s Thorburn on her son Andrew Heatlies death certifcate in 1919.
Thankyou for any thing you can find regarding any of the above.
Dawnxx

I think this is Jessie in 1841:

1841 Scotland Census
about Jessie Thorborne
Name: Jessie Thorborne
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1809
Gender: Female
Where born: Selkirkshire, Scotland

Civil Parish: Selkirk
County: Selkirkshire
Address: Head Of Kirkwynd E Side
Occupation: Dress M
Parish Number: 778
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Thorborne 70
David Mclain 25
John Thorborne 75
Jessie Thorborne 75
Jessie Thorborne 32
Wilm Sandlands 16
Robt Domingo 13
Janet Heather 3 - possibly Janet Heatlie?
Andw Cowan 18
Gideon Ritchie 34
Isabel Ritchie 36
Janet Ritchie 9
Thomas Ritchie 7
Eliza Ritchie 4
Mary Ritchie 1

I think Dawn said previously that she is mentioned on one of the children's marriage certs.

I can find her with the children up until 1881. I cannot find Andrew at all.

Dawn, where did you get his name from.

Jessie may say that she is the mother in 1851 but is there proof?
1841 Scotland Census
about Jessie Thorborne
Name: Jessie Thorborne
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1809
Gender: Female
Where born: Selkirkshire, Scotland

Civil Parish: Selkirk
County: Selkirkshire
Address: Head Of Kirkwynd E Side
Occupation: Dress M
Parish Number: 778

Did Andrew marry after Jessie died? Have you found Andrew on any census?

So this is the family in 1851 - odd that she gives her surname as Thorborn and the children as Heatlie:

1851 Scotland Census
about Jessie Thorburn
Name: Jessie Thorburn
Age: 41
Estimated birth year: abt 1810
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Selkirk, Selkirk
Parish Number: 778
Civil Parish: Selkirk
County: Selkirkshire
Address: Kirkwynd East Side
Occupation: Sempstress
Jessie Thorburn 41
Janet Hatelie 13
James Hatelie 9
Andrew Hatelie 5
John Hatelie 10 MO
William Sandlands 25 nephew

Thanks Foggy i will check that website out.
Potty the details are below:
The 4 illigitimate children were Janet Heatlie born 1838 in Selkirk Scotland.
James Heatlie born 1842 in Selkirk Scotland.
Andrew born 1848 in Selkirk Sotland.
John Thorburn Heatlie (my 4x grandfather) born 1850 Selkirk Scotland.
Their parents were Andrew Heatlie born 1809 in Selkirk he was a woollen weaver and journey man and Jessie Thorburn (actually baptised as Janet)who was born 1808 also in Selkirk, Andrew and Jessie were never married. if you need anything else let me know.
Dawn

Dawn,

Would you like to post some details - maybe other eyes can find something.

Dawn,

Illegitimate births were recorded pre 1855 in Scotland, I have found many during my research, it nearly always said "born to, whoever from fornication".

Go to scotfamtree.org.uk and ask on there, they are brilliant there, good luck with your research.

Just had a look on SP website at births after 1855 but none of the children are there unfortunately. I dont think she registered any of them for some reason which makes my job harder. I had a look on the catholic registers as well but again nothing, i also looked under the mothers surname but still the same so back to the gringstone for me again unless anyone can think of somewhere i havent looked?:-)

Thankyou all for replying. I have only looked for baptisms before 1855 for the 4 illigitimate children but as someone above said they may have been baptised at a later date so i am going to have a look in a minute and see what i can find. My 5x grandmother who had the 4 children out of wedlock never married the childrens father but i have noticed that she used his surname for herself on a couple of the childrens marriage certificates, do you think this would of been because she would of been embaressed to be down as a unmarried mother on the certificate so she used his surname to make it look like she was married?