Genealogy Chat

The only other reference to a Thomas Phenton is his marriage

Married after Banns


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Thomas Richard Phenton
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Spouse Name: Charlotte Jenman
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 6 May 1917
Parish: St Jude, Bethnal Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: James Phenton
Spouse Father Name: Frederick Jenman

from image:-

Thomas
Bachelor
Age 24
Address:- 1 Camden Street
Occupation:- Private 4th Reserves Buffs
Father:- James Phenton, deceased, Painter

Charlotte
Spinster
Age 22
No occupation given
Father:- Comb Maker

Witnesses:- Clark John and Rose Jewman



sylvia

Name: Charlotte Phenton
Death Registration Month/Year: 1964
Age at death (estimated): 68
Registration district: Stepney
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5d
Page: 608

According to the service record

He was a Baker, having served an apprenticeship

Thomas R Branson emlisted 24 - 8 -14

was attested to the Buffs 24 - 8- 14 Private

Service No 10247

Discharged for misconduct 30 - 10 -14
Character Indifferent

on the front sheet . he says that he had previously been in the Buffs, and was discharged as "medically unfit" in 1912

NOK
Mother Miltilda Address Not Known
Brother James Dorset Regiment
Brother Harry Address Not known



I wonder if that is why he changed his name to Phenton .......... so that he could re-join the army??????????????


But there will be no proof unless Phenton's records have survived.


it then looks as though he married Charlotte as Phenton, and then abandoned her .................. could ther epossibly have been a divorce?

Maybe that death certificate could provide an answer





sylvia

Thank you all for your help i am going to order charlotte death cert to see if that help and i did not now that thomam branson hada brother called harry so will look to see if i can find any info on him that might help solve the puzzel
many thanks john

from that Public Family tree on ancestry


siblings of Thomas Robert Branson

James Branson
1882 –
b. Colchester

Alice Margaret Branson
1887 –
b. Leytonstone, Essex
baptized 10 April 1887, Leytonstone

Harry James Branson
1891 –
b. Greenwich, Middlesex



sylvia

Harry's on the 1901 Census with Thomas

1901 Census

Name: Harry Branson
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Madler Branson
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolwich

Civil parish: Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
Town: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Croydon
Sub-registration district: Croydon

.
Madler Branson 47 b.ca 1854, Colchester, Widow, Charwoman
James Branson 19 b.ca 1882, Colchester, Labourer <<<<<?? James Hxxx Branson on image
Thomas Branson 16 b.ca 1885, Colchester, Labourer
Harry Branson 10

Address:- Macroni (??sp) Lodging House



London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Harry James Branson
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 19 Oct 1891
Father's Name: James Branson
Mother's Name: Matilda Branson
Parish: St Michael and All Angels, Woolwich
Borough: Greenwich
County: Middlesex

from image:-

Born May 29 1891
Addreess:- 16 Frances Street
Father's occupation:- Painter


sylvia

i think they are the same people as their are no census or birth or death record for thomas phenton just a married record .

John

that is my conclusion

the question now is ...... did he divorce Charlotte

or was his marriage to Caroline bigamous ................ and is thta the reason they went to Australia??




sylvia

no the reason she went to oz was to live with her daughter after thomas branson died. i think their is so much in common between the two men that they must be the same people but why would he choose the name phenton and not a more common name like smith or jones ect

This would be his brother James

1911 census - household transcription
Person: BRANSON, James
Address: 67 Ann St Plumstead
BRANSON, James Head Married M 28 1883 Costermonger Bourn County of Colchester Essex
BRANSON, Martha Wife Married
3 years F 28 1883 Horne Church Essex


I know Frances Street well. I lived their as a baby with my mum,grand parents and great grandparents.

passenger transcript details
Name: Caroline BRANSON
Date of departure: 21 May 1960
Port of departure: Southampton
Passenger destination port: Sydney, Australia
Passenger destination: Sydney, Australia
Date of Birth: 19 January 1886
Age: 74 (calculated from DOB)
Marital status: Single
Sex: Female
Occupation: Home Duties

Address 103 Sibthorpe Road Lee


Is this Caroline?

So, folks.

Tips: http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1240494
help needed please
hi i am trying to find who the parents of charlott
John 15/09/2010 13:32:24 12 replies

Tips: http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1226803
Help tracing phenton
hi having trouble tracing the phenton i have a tho
John 21/06/2010 10:13:18 31 replies


Anybody want to wager on how much effort has been duplicated here?

shoot!

most everything has been duplicated



grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr



except I did put 2 and 2 together and determine that it was most probably a case of someone changing surname. Very possibly done so that he could re-join The Buffs from which he had just been dismissed "for cause"

That brings the inevitable conclusion that he married Charlotte as Phenton in 1917, and then married Caroline as Branson in 1920something

leaving the question of whether the second marriage was bigamous


LK did find that passenger list on which she describes herself as "Single", which I find interesting ...... and implies that she may well have known that she was not legally married. Otherwise, why didn't she describe herself as "Widow"?



and the tree on ancestry most certainly has him under both names, so they have made the connection



sylvia

Oh, I'm sure you cracked it this time, Sylvia!

But just think of all the wasted time and effort, as John just let people go on "finding" all the information he'd already been given and didn't see fit to mention.

oh yes Janey


I saw all that and was spitting feathers here!


just trying to make the best of it!



sylvia

Hello folks,

I just stumbled across your discussion about Thomas Branson. I am descended from Thomas's brother Henry (Harry) James Branson. I can tell you all about Harry's descendants and a few generations back. I also have contact with descendants of another brother Arthur.

We have no record of Thomas since his marriage to Caroline Archer in 1924 and your Phenton story is fascinating.

We also have no record of James since his army discharge in 1920.

We have only early details of Alice, the oldest child, but we are convinced that your Leytonstone girl is not the right one (though she had us fooled for many years!)

Where shall I start?

Roy Branson

Roy


Fascinating!!


May I suggest that you click on John's name, and send him a message through the system ... just like you did to me.


That should attract his attention!



and we'll see if anyone else adds to this thread!



sylvia

Hello all. I don't like this labyrinth of a message board but I'll make a simple start with Alice. (Nothing to do with electoral rolls btw). Alice Bransom Double was born on 29th December 1876 at the Union Workhouse, St Botolphs, Colchester. Mother Matilda Double, tailoress, of Magdalen Street, Colchester. No father stated, but her second name gives a clue! More later, maybe. Roy

Re the questions about Charlotte of the first marriage, just in case this wasn't found somewhere:


Marriages Jun 1917
Phenton Thomas R Jewman Bethnal G. 1c 235
Yewman Charlotte Phenton Bethnal G. 1c 235

Name: Charlotte Phenton
Death Registration Month/Year: 1964
Age at death (estimated): 68 = dob c1896
Registration district: Stepney
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5d
Page: 608

Births Dec 1894
Yewman Charlotte Bethnal G. 1c 165


Roy, the board is actually fairly simple to work. Two things:

- always just click on "My threads" on the left of any discussion board to find threads you have started or posted in

- read the HOW TO USE THE TRYING TO FIND BOARD pinned at the top of the TTF board -- if you are reading a "surname board" you will have to click on Trying to Find on the left, then click at the top where it says "to view the entire trying to find board again, click here", and then you will see the post in question.