Genealogy Chat

LAVERTY, Mary Head Widow F 84 1827 Co Derry Londonderry Resident VIEW
LAVERTY, Barney Son M 51 1860 Lanarks Glasgow Resident VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
22220 Reference:
RG14PN22220 RG78PN1314 RD454 SD1 ED9 SN249

Registration District:
Toxteth Park Sub District:
Toxteth Park North West Enumeration District:
9 Parish:
Toxteth Park

Address:
23 Shaftesbury Street Toxteth Park L'pool County:
Lancashire

Reg. District: Toxteth Park Sub District: Toxteth Park North West
Parish: Toxteth Park Enum. District: 9

Address: 43 Gelling Street Toxteth Park L'pool County: Lancashire


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation, Where Born

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DREW, Walter Head Married M 47 1864 Donkey Sea Engine Driver Lancashire Lpool T P
DREW, Catherine Wife Married
19 years F 45 1866 Lancashire Lpool T P
DREW, Dorothy Daughter F 13 1898 School Lancashire Lpool T P
DREW, Robert Son M 9 1902 School Lancashire Lpool T P
DREW, Walter Son M 7 1904 School Lancashire Lpool T P
DREW, Sydney Son M 3 1908 Lancashire Lpool T P
OATES, Eliza Mother In Law Widow F 72 1839 Lancashire Lpool F P
CHALMOR, William Boarder Single M 20 1891 Metal Engraver Lancashire Lpool F P

Hi,
I was hoping someone could look up an address on the 1911 census please. I need 43 Gelling St,Toxteth Park, Liverpool and 23 Shaftesbury St,Toxteth Park, Liverpool.
Many thanks,
Kim x

Hi,

I have a copy of Catherines marriage to William Cowley 22nd May 1904.William was 20 and Catherine was 18.Her father was William Sandford (fireman) and she lived at Hop Street West Derby at the time.Catherine and William were my mums grandparents.
Thanks,
Kim x

I'm really not sure about any of this. If the address on the certificate you have for Honor's death is definitely one that you know relates to your family then I think you are on the right track. However I think that Honor is actually Annie.

Is this "your" Catherine's marriage:-

Name: Catherine Sandford
Year of Registration: 1904
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 862

Spouse either William Cowley or William Ford.

If someone could find any of the families in the 1911 census that would help.

(have to leave the computer for a while now so will check back later).

Kath. x

Hi,
Is it possible that people used different first names maybe due to their accent? My mum definately knew her as Honor though she had an irish accent. Also I have a birth cert for Michael Sandford(1881) parents William And Annie O'Hara but the wedding cert says they married in 1885.Yet on the census the son is called William born at the same time.Also on the marriage cert they are aged 28 and 23(5yrs difference) and on the census 8yrs difference.
Very confusing but do you think I'm on the right track.
Thanks,
Kim x

The thing that puzzles me is the fact that William Sandford's wife seems to have the name Annie, Anna or Honor!!! I wonder which is right as there are births in Liverpool for all three names.

You really need to get certificates and work back methodically. I'd start with your nan's birth certificate (or your mother or father's - whichever is your nan's child) and work backwards from there.

Kath. x

The 1901 census transcribed Mary C. Clara is definitely Mary O'Hara, living with her grandson James Conlon:-

Name: Mary C Clara
Age: 84
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: West Derby St Nathaniel Windsor
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: West Derby, Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 70
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 179
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary C Clara 84
James Conlon 12

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3497; Folio: 19; Page: 29.

In the same building but as a separate household is William and Anna Sandford - their children are William and Catherine:-

Name: William Sandford
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Anna Sandford
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: West Derby St Nathaniel Windsor
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: West Derby, Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 70
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 180
Household Members:
Name Age

William Sandford 55
Anna Sandford 47
William Sandford 19
Catherine Sandford 15

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3497; Folio: 19; Page: 29.

Kath. x

Hi Folks,
This keeps getting more exciting. I think the two people who lived with the Sandfords are connected because on William and Annies marriage cert(if ive got the right one) their witnesses are Henry Thomas Conlon and Catherine Conlon.I do think I have the right death cert because the address of 4 Collinwood Place was my nans house and my mum can remember her living there for a while when she was a child. Mind you mums said that she had a wooden leg and a cross on her eye,very distinctive.Also on that cert it says Annies dad was Michael(labourer),Williams dad was Thomas(shoemaker)
Many thanks for all your help,
Kim x

could someone please check 1901 census image i think this should be Mary O'hara living in same household as the Sandfords's



Name: Mary C Clara
Age: 84
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: West Derby St Nathaniel Windsor
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England



Name: James Conlon
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: West Derby St Nathaniel Windsor
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3497; Folio: 19; Page: 29.

do you know birth details for Catherine could this be the family in 1901?Name: Anna Sandford
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William Sandford
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: West Derby St Nathaniel Windsor


Name: William Sandford
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Anna Sandford
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: West Derby St Nathaniel Windsor
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England


Name: William Sandford
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1882
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Sandford
Mother's Name: Anna Sandford
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: West Derby St Nathaniel Windsor
County/Island: Lancashire


Name: Catherine Sandford
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Sandford
Mother's Name: Anna Sandford
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: West Derby St Nathaniel Windsor
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

I guess this is the death certificate you have:-

Name: Honor Sandford
Death Registration Month/Year: March qtr. 1950
Age at death (estimated): 96
Registration district: Liverpool North
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10d
Page: 206

What makes you think that this Honor is the Annie that married William Sandford? Does the death certificate say she is the widow of William Sandford? There are other Sandford marriages where on the same page there is a lady called Honor.

Do you have your nan's birth certificate (which would have her mother's maiden name on it?

Kath. x

There are other Sandford

Hi Kath,
I have a death cert for Annie/honor Sandford she died 6th Feb 1950 aged 96.I know this is her because the address for her was my nans house but she didnt die there but at what looks like 14 Moorgate st,liverpool7. Don't know whether or not this was a home or hospital of some kind.From this I assume she was born around 1856 but dont know where. I also have a copy of the marriage cert from 1885 were Annie was aged 23 and William was 28. Annies dad was Michael(labourer) and Williams was Thomas(shoemaker) but don't know if any of this is right
Thanks again,
Kim x

The only Annie Sandford death I can see in 1950 is this one (but she is only 63 so couldn't be the Annie O'Hara that married William Sandford in 1885, or did Annie die under a different surname?):-

Name: Annie Sandford
Death Registration Month/Year: 1950
Age at death (estimated): 63
Registration district: Blackburn
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10b
Page: 488

Kath. x

You should always start with yourself and work backwards generation by generation.

This seems to be William Sandford and Annie O'Hara's marriage:-

Name: William Sandford
Year of Registration: 1885
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Liverpool (1837-1934)
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 192

On the same page is Annie O'Hara.

The certificate would give you their approximate ages (sometimes people lie) and the names of both of their fathers.

Kath. x

Hi Kath,
I have a William Sandford married to Honor/Annie? O'haraand they had at least 2 children(Michael and Catherine). Michael married Bridget but was killed in ww1,Catherine was my mums nan and died in ww2 civilian casualty. For some reason Annie O'hara lived with my mum when she was young and died in 1950 aged 95 in a home of some sort. We dony know what happened to her hubby but she always said that her husband and sons? died in the war.Its all quite confusing to me not sure whether to start at my mum and work backwards form there,any advice will be appreciated. thanks kim xxxxxxxxxx

The deceased person's address is usually on the death certificate. His wife MAY be the informant but if not then she will probably not be mentioned on the certificate.

There are 4 William Sandford deaths in 1921. Which one are you thinking of because it may be possible to find his marriage and therefore his wife's name if they stayed in the same area.

Who is William Sandford? Is he connected to Michael Sandford?

My son is absolutely certain that the address on Ancestry for Bridget is Dinorben Street.

Kath. x

Hi Kath,
Many thanks for your help. I tried to to access the link you sent me for ancestry but it wouldnt let me so I couldnt see the info.Is there any way to find out where a person lived at the time of their death as I have a William Sandfords death in 1921 and wondered how to find his wifes name?
thanks again,
Kim x

Hi Kim

You do have to buy certificates to see what is on them but it depends on what information you are looking for. You may be able to find some information in other ways.

Whose birth certificate were you thinking of?

Kath. x

you can get certs from this official site
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp cost £9.25
using details posted tick gro known box as this is the index/page numbers

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ this is useful free site to search for other bmd indexes as you find more family!!


did you know his wife was Bridget to be certain you have the right family