Genealogy Chat

Hi Cathy

mutter mutter is right, this side of the family has proved to be very difficult. My Mums side where easy, but as she says they have been boring for 500 years.

kind regards
Sian

Hi Kath

Why do things have to be so complicated. My Grandpa lied about his age too, and his fathers occupation.
They never saw the internet coming and everyone rooting around in the family history. Hee Hee.

kind regards
Sian

No I don't think the 1871 census is him either but he must be somewhere!!!

I can't find a birth for a James Cummings in Birkenhead between 1861 and 1871 either?

mutter mutter....

Don't forget that ages on certificates are only what is given to the registrar and may not be accurate.

My grandmother's age on her marriage certificate is 5 years out and on her death certificate it is 2 years out. I don't think my grandfather ever really knew his wife's real age. He was 19 years older than her so I think they both lied on the marriage certificate to make the age difference seem less.

Kath. x

Hi Cathy

Thinking about it, I don't think it is him because on his marriage cert. his age is 27, of course he could be lying about it. Also I know he died in 1956 age 92. So the James on the 1871 census is too old, shame.

kind regards
Sian

Hi Cathy

You are a star, this is all very interesting.

kind regards
Sian

Hi Cathy

I'd say 99% certain its them. Very interesting thank you

kind regards
Sian

1861 census - household transcription
Person: MIDDLETON, Isabel
Address: Arno Road, Woodchurch Oxton
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OPENSHAW, Louisa Head Unmarried F 31 1830 Annuitant
Bury
Lancashire North Wales
OPENSHAW, Eleanor Sister Unmarried F 16 1845 Scholar
Bury Lancashire
OPENSHAW, W H L Brother M 13 1848 Scholar
Bury Lancashire
WALTON, Jane Visitor Unmarried F 36 1825 Annuitant
Levenshulme Lancashire
BROWN, William Boarder Unmarried M 26 1835 Share Brokers Clerk
Manchester Lancashire
ADAMS, Andrew Boarder Unmarried M 21 1840 Commercial Clerk Copper On Office
Plymouth Devonshire
MIDDLETON, Isabel Servant Unmarried F 21 1840 House Servant Ayrshire Scotland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG09 Piece:
2647 Folio:
69 Page:
34

Registration District:
Birkenhead Sub District:
2 Tranmere Enumeration District:
12 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Saviours

Civil Parish:
Woodchurch Oxton Municipal Borough:
Address:
Arno Road, Woodchurch Oxton County:
Cheshire

Hi Cathy,

Could be, I really don't know. Dont you just hate it when this happens. I asked a distant cousin of my Dad and he thought the family had come from Scotland possibly Ireland. I don't know any more.

kind regards
Sian

Could be a possible for the marriage from the 1871 census I found
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1861 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beaumont Joseph Birkenhead 8a 601
BIRCH Thomas Birkenhead 8a 601
Middleton Isabella Birkenhead 8a 601
WANN__ Sarah Birkenhead 8a 601

Hi Sian,

He's a Labourer and the parents come from Newry? Ireland so I don't think it's the right one....

Cathy

Hi Cathy

Very interesting, could be they where often vague about the date of birth. On James' marriage certificate his fathers occupation is farmer. What does the 1871 census say?

kind regards
Sian

Hi Dee

Yes I have a copy of his marriage cert.
His father (also James) is stated as a farmer.
the witnessed where Walter Crowder and Mary Louisa Reece, the married at St Mary the Virgin, West Derby, Liverpool.

kind regards
Sian

Still can't find a James Cummings born in Birkinhead about 1864 though!!!
The nearest I've found is 1858 as in this one....

1871 Census
Name: James Cummings
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub-registration district: Birkenhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household schedule number: 236
Household Members: Name Age
James Cummings 37
Ann Cummings 39
James Cummings 13
Maria A Cummings 11
Joseph Cummings 5
Rebecca Cummings 3
Mary Cummings 2

Hi Sian,

Do you have the marriage certificate? If you do what was James's fathers occupation and who were the witnesses?


Dee x

Hi Cathy

Thank you. I think both the 1881 and 1891 are Jane I know she was a domestic servant.

kind regards
Sian

Hi Cathy

The marriage Dee found is correct. I think it very likely it is them. Thank you so much.

kind regards
Sian

Hi Dee

Yes that is their marriage.

kind regards
Sian

Hi Cathy

That is definatley the right family

kind regards
Sian

1891 Census

Name: Jane Birch
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Birkenhead, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Tranmere
Ecclesiastical parish: St Catherine
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub-registration district: Tranmere
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Andrew Grierson 57
Catherine Grierson 60
Jane Birch 24