Genealogy Chat

To DET,

Thanks for the links to UK incoming passenger list 1878-1960 and USA Naturalisation, I'll follow them up.

Regards,

Geoff

USA Naturalisation - try this link

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=34139c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=34139c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD

(www.ucis.gov)

The UK incoming passenger list 1878-1960 show the images from the passenger lists, regardless of whether they are visitors, or intend to make the UK their permanent residence. There is a column where this is indicated ie last place of permanent residence/ intended place of permanent residence. That may only indicate a country. Some records show the destination eg c/o Joe Bloggs, 21 The Street, New Town, County etc

Is there a particular department (an archive?) within US Social Security which holds records of Social Security numbers given to immigrants (in this case Henry & Florence Ingram, UK citizens but resident in New Jersey 1910-1830 and beyond). Also is there a US government department (naturalization?) which has records of aliens becoming US citizens?

Geoff

The UK incoming passenger lists for 1878 to 1960 (series BT 26). Is this what to consult to see if someone has returned from USA after eg 30 years? Does it only cover those who intend to stay in UK, ie not here just for a short visit of are they included too?

Have just come across a partial entry for Henry Ingram in 1920 US Census in Essex, New Jersey, but as Henery Ingran. No further info available.

Posting the 1901 FMP census transcription - he appears to be a patient of some kind, along with the others.

The occupation looks like 'dressing 6 inch shells' (?) - the right sort of occupation


SITTING, Harriet J Matron Single F 37 1864 Trained Nurse (Matron)
Laxmindham
Suffolk VIEW
HINDLEY, Edward Patient Married M 32 1869 Turner & Inch Shells
Manchester
Lancashire VIEW
GRIFFIN, Albert Patient Single M 36 1865 Amunition Worker
Bham
Warwickshire VIEW
INGRAM, Henry Patient Married M 32 1869 Dressing & Inch Shells
Bham
Warwickshire VIEW
JACKSON, Walter E Patient Single M 18 1883 Tool Maker Cap & Wad Tools
Bham
Warwickshire VIEW
POTTER, Herbert C Patient Single M 20 1881 Turner & Inch Shells
Handsworth
Staffordshire VIEW
WARREN, Thomas Patient Single M 20 1881 Tool Maker
Bham
Warwickshire VIEW
HERVEY, Sarah J Servant Widow F 57 1844 General Domestic
Bham
Warwickshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
5290 Folio:
202 Page:
4

Registration District:
Conway Sub District:
Creuddyn Enumeration District:
22 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Llandudno

Civil Parish:
Llandudno Municipal Borough:
Address:
7, Craig Y Don Parade, Llandudno County:
Carnarvonshire

This chap is married;

1901 Wales Census
about Henry Ingram
Name: Henry Ingram
Age in 1901: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation: Patient
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Llandudno
Town: Llandudno
County/Island: Caernarvonshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: >>>> 6 Inch Shells???
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Conway
Sub-registration district: Creuddyn
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 20
Household Members: Name Age
Harriet J Sitting 37
Edward Hindley 32
Albert Griffin 36
Henry Ingram 32
Walter E Jackson 18
Herbert C Potter 20
Thomas Warren 20
Sarah J Hervey 57



Dee x

Hi Geoff,

I couldn't see a Maddox Ingram marriage, but this marriage is in the correct area;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1890 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ASTON Henry Aston 6d 426
Beason James Albert Aston 6d 426
>>>>>>INGRAM Henry Aston 6d 426
>>>>>>MURRAY Florence Aston 6d 426
Price Rachel Ruth Aston 6d 426


1891 England Census
about Florence Ingram
Name: Florence Ingram
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Henry
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrews
Town: Bordesley
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address: 1 Back 94 Green Lane

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Deritend
ED, institution, or vessel: 77
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Ingram 24 >>> Machine Fitter
Florence Ingram 22


Could this be them in 1891??


Dee x

Do you know what Henry's job was before he left the UK??

There is this one on the 1901 Census, althouhg the birth place is wrong

1901 Census

Name: Henry Ingram
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Walsall, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Disley
Ecclesiastical parish: Disley St Mary
Town: Disley
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Registration district: Hayfield
Sub-registration district: Hayfield

William Jones 37
Helena Jones 41
Frederick J W Gibbs 14
Ernest Jones 12
John Jones 5
William Sailblard 68
Thomas Hallam 28
Henry Ingram 35 Boarder, MARRIED, Lanscape Gardener
John Tomkins 58



Maybe not, if this was Henry and Florence in 1891


1891 Census

Name: Henry Ingram
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Florence
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrews
Town: Bordesley
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Deritend

Henry Ingram 24 Machine Fitter
Florence Ingram 22 Tin Solderer





sylvia

Choccy,

It's possible that William and Leonard were born illegitimate I suppose, maybe before Florence Maddox married Henry Ingram (don't know when they tied the knot). If so would they be registered under Florence's maiden name then later given the Ingram name when she married (4 year gap between Henry junior and Leonard)? I don't suppose she had a previous marriage, it would be unusual in those days. As ever I'm just guessing!

Geoff

Maybe adding to the mystery, I can't find births for William and Leonard Ingram.


The 1901 census says all children born in Aston.


2 possibles for Henry -

Births Sep 1898 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ingram Henry Aston 6d 437

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1899 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ingram Henry Aston 6d 285




Births Jun 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

INGRAM Florence May Aston 6d 433



No matches for a William Ingram or Leonard Ingram that I can see.

Dee
I've noticed Leonard Ingram doesn't show at all in 1911 census so maybe he died between 1901 & 1911, or emigrated somewhere other than USA? Australia maybe? Is that likely?

Geoff x

Hello Dee,
I'm beginning to think you're right about the parents coming back to UK. Wonder if they became US citizens? Perhaps not, they hadn't by 1930. Is there a website like ellisislandrecords.org which records passengers coming into UK? What intrigues me is where was father Henry Ingram in 1901? I've discovered that he emigrated to US in 1907 on Mauretania. Next of kin Eliza Ingram, sister of 22 Lewins Road, Birchfields, Birmingham. Passage paid for by brother-in-law F I Egginson, 150 Walnut Street, Newark NJ
1910, living at 4 Jabez Street, Newark, NJ according to ship's manifest. (Info from EllisIsland site).
And what became of William and Leonard? In 1910 when the rest of the Ingrams were in US they were 17/16 and working/fending for themselves? The plot thickens!

Thanks for all your efforts

Geoff x

Hi Geoff,

this is the 1901 census I found;

1901 England Census
about Florence Ingram
Name: Florence Ingram
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1900
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Florence
Gender: Female
Where born: Aston, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Aston Manor
Ecclesiastical parish: Aston by Birmingham St Peter and St Paul
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address: 200 Witton Lane

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Aston Manor
ED, institution, or vessel: 43
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 27
Household Members: Name Age
Florence Ingram 30
William Ingram 7
Leonard Ingram 6
Henry Ingram 2
Florence Ingram 1

All born Aston and the children are Florences.


So it makes me wonder whether the parents could have returned to the UK.... almost going home to die??? The majority of family would still be in the area? I'll have another look for their deaths in the States and over here.



Dee x

Yes Florence M Katz is mother's cousin Dolly. I think the M might stand for May which seemed a popular name at the time but again I'm not sure. Re Leonard and William, afraid I don't know who they are, could they be mother Florence and Henry's older children. If so presumably they didn't emigrate as well. The family did live in Aston but I've a feeling I looked up the 1901 census and noticed that Florence was the head of the household. One of her sisters may have been living with her as well. Do you have sight of the actual 1901 pages? I guess father Henry Ingram could already have gone to New Jersey to seek his fortune? According to the Campania ship's manifest in 1910, Florence's nearest relative in England was her father in-law Mr Ingram of 25 Ascot Road Birmingham. In case you didn't know her maiden name was Maddox.

Geoff

Hi Geoff,

I really don't know enough regarding the US Social Security Numbers, I did note that the year 1951 seems to be on most deaths that I've come across... so I wonder if this is when they started the use of these??? I'm really not sure.

I couldn't see any UK returns for the Ingrams that jumped out at me.

I think I found the family in 1901 in England (Aston area), did Leonard and William stay in the UK?? They would be quite young if they did... late teens?? Do I have the correct family? If so I wonder if there are any clues with them???


Dee x

I really don't know whether Harry & Dolly's parent's came back to England it's possible, trouble is there's nobody alive in the family to ask. They would have had US SocSec numbers wouldn't they?

Did the daughter Florence have a middle name?

Social Security Death Index
about Florence M. Katz
Name: Florence M. Katz
SSN: 152-10-6741
Last Residence: 07003 Bloomfield, Essex, New Jersey, United States of America
Born: 3 Apr 1900
Died: 1 Nov 1995
State (Year) SSN issued: New Jersey (Before 1951)



Dee x

His death;

Social Security Death Index
about Harry Ingram
Name: Harry Ingram
SSN: 137-07-1662
Last Residence: 33707 Saint Petersburg, Pinellas, Florida, United States of America
Born: 5 Jul 1898
Died: May 1972
State (Year) SSN issued: New



I can't see any deaths for the parents, could they have returned to the UK??

Dee x