Genealogy Chat

My late mother's aunt emigrated to New Jersey with her 2 children in 1910 (I assume following her husband who'd already gone ahead but that's just a guess). In the Ellis Island records I've seen the ship's manifest which confirms this. Have also a copy of the relevant 1930 census page. The son (c31) is not listed (had set up home elsewhere?) and the daughter Florence (30) has married (but husband not listed) and has a son Harry. The local reference library have sent me copies of Florence's and Harry's obituaries, very helpful but I'm wondering how I can trace Florence's husband, parents and brother after 1930. I believe having their Social Security numbers would help to discover when they died but how would I find those? Also any other tips on tracking information eg if her brother married & had family how would I find them?

Hope someone can give me a lead or two please.

Thanks

Geoff

Hi Geoff,

is this the family?

1930 United States Federal Census
about Florence Katz
Name: Florence Katz
[Florence Ingram]
Home in 1930: Bloomfield, Essex, New Jersey
View Map
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1900
Birthplace: England
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Florence
Race: White
Occupation:

Education:

Military service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace: View image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Ingram 61
Florence Ingram 60
Florence Katz 30
Harry Katz 10
Alfred Cazigas 5


If so young Florence married at aged 17.


Dee x

Looks like them 10 years previously;

1920 United States Federal Census
about Florence Katz
Name: Florence Katz
Home in 1920: Newark Ward 5, Essex, New Jersey
Age: 19
[18]
Estimated birth year: abt 1901
[abt 1902]
Birthplace: England
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Spouse's name: John
Father's Birth Place: England
Mother's Birth Place: England
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Sex: Female
Year of Immigration: 1911
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Katz 22
Florence Katz 19
[18]
Harry Katz 0
[3/12]


John was born in New Jersey and his parents; Father's Birth Place: Germany, Mother's Birth Place: Ireland



Dee x

Sorry Geoff, visitors just turned up. Hopefully someone else will pop in and help, if not I'll be back later.


Dee x

This looks like him in 1910. Father born in Germany and mother in Ireland.


1910 United States Federal Census
Name: John W Katz
[John W Latz]
Age in 1910: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1899
Birthplace: New Jersey
Relation to Head of House: Son
Father's Name: Henry A
Father's Birth Place: New Jersey
Mother's Name: Frances
Mother's Birth Place: Ireland
Home in 1910: Newark Ward 12, Essex, New Jersey
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Gender: Male
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry A Katz 46
Frances Katz 44
Henry A Katz Jr 19
Francis B Katz 17
Frederick J Katz 16
John W Katz 11
James A Katz 10




Source Citation: Year: 1910; Census Place: Newark Ward 12, Essex, New Jersey; Roll T624_879; Page: 18A; Enumeration District: 102; Image: 105.



and in 1900 -


1900 United States Federal Census
Name: John Katz
[John Ratz]
Home in 1900: Newark Ward 12, Essex, New Jersey
Age: 2
Birth Date: May 1898
Birthplace: New Jersey
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relationship to Head of House: Son
Father's Name: Henry
Father's Birthplace: New Jersey
Mother's Name: Francis
Mother's Birthplace: Ireland
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: View on Image
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Katz 36
Francis Katz 37
Henry Katz 10
Francis Katz 7
Fredric Katz 6
John Katz 2
Angustus Katz 4/12




Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Newark Ward 12, Essex, New Jersey; Roll T623_966; Page: 16A; Enumeration District: 117.

Social Security Death Index Social Security Death Index
Name: John Katz
SSN: 137-01-7464
Last Residence: 07083 Union, Union, New Jersey, United States of America
Born: 16 May 1898
Died: Nov 1973
State (Year) SSN issued: New Jersey (Before 1951)



Source Citation: Number: 137-01-7464;Issue State: New Jersey;Issue Date: Before 1951.

strangely in 1930 he is with his parents, stating he is single (I think) -


1930 United States Federal Census
Name: John Katz
Home in 1930: Newark, Essex, New Jersey
View Map
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1899
Relation to Head of House: Son
Father's Name: Henry A
Mother's Name: Francis B
Race: White
Household Members: Name Age
Henry A Katz 68
Francis B Katz 69
Frederick Katz 36
John Katz 31
James A Katz 30




Source Citation: Year: 1930; Census Place: Newark, Essex, New Jersey; Roll 1339; Page: 7B; Enumeration District: 198; Image: 428.0.

Looks like the son Harry;

1930 United States Federal Census
about Harry Ingram
Name: Harry Ingram
Home in 1930: Belleville, Essex, New Jersey
View Map
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1898
Birthplace: England
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's name: Betrice
Race: White
Occupation:

Education:

Military service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace: View image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Harry Ingram 32
Betrice Ingram 32


Married at age 25 and his occupation is a Carpenter.

No look in tracing the 5 year old boarder on the 1930 census.

But on the 1920 censu for Florence Katz...... the Katz family are living nextdoor to her parents; Henry and Florence Ingram.


Dee x

Thanks Dee and Choccy, that's really helpful. I wasn't expecting all the census stuff. I thought I would have to contact US Social Security but if I do, which department would deal with that sort of enquiry? Any ideas?

Geoff

This may help with a search for the sons death;

World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
about Harry Ingram
Name: Harry Ingram
City: Newark
County: Essex
State: New Jersey
Birth Date: 5 Jul 1898
Race: White
FHL Roll Number: 1754348
DraftBoard: 12
Age: 20

Occupation: electrician (confirmed by 1920 census)

Nearest Relative: Mother; Mrs Florence Ingram

Height/Build: Tall in Height, Medium in Build

Colour of Eyes/Hair: both Brown

Signature: View image



Dee x

His death;

Social Security Death Index
about Harry Ingram
Name: Harry Ingram
SSN: 137-07-1662
Last Residence: 33707 Saint Petersburg, Pinellas, Florida, United States of America
Born: 5 Jul 1898
Died: May 1972
State (Year) SSN issued: New



I can't see any deaths for the parents, could they have returned to the UK??

Dee x

Did the daughter Florence have a middle name?

Social Security Death Index
about Florence M. Katz
Name: Florence M. Katz
SSN: 152-10-6741
Last Residence: 07003 Bloomfield, Essex, New Jersey, United States of America
Born: 3 Apr 1900
Died: 1 Nov 1995
State (Year) SSN issued: New Jersey (Before 1951)



Dee x

I really don't know whether Harry & Dolly's parent's came back to England it's possible, trouble is there's nobody alive in the family to ask. They would have had US SocSec numbers wouldn't they?

Hi Geoff,

I really don't know enough regarding the US Social Security Numbers, I did note that the year 1951 seems to be on most deaths that I've come across... so I wonder if this is when they started the use of these??? I'm really not sure.

I couldn't see any UK returns for the Ingrams that jumped out at me.

I think I found the family in 1901 in England (Aston area), did Leonard and William stay in the UK?? They would be quite young if they did... late teens?? Do I have the correct family? If so I wonder if there are any clues with them???


Dee x

Yes Florence M Katz is mother's cousin Dolly. I think the M might stand for May which seemed a popular name at the time but again I'm not sure. Re Leonard and William, afraid I don't know who they are, could they be mother Florence and Henry's older children. If so presumably they didn't emigrate as well. The family did live in Aston but I've a feeling I looked up the 1901 census and noticed that Florence was the head of the household. One of her sisters may have been living with her as well. Do you have sight of the actual 1901 pages? I guess father Henry Ingram could already have gone to New Jersey to seek his fortune? According to the Campania ship's manifest in 1910, Florence's nearest relative in England was her father in-law Mr Ingram of 25 Ascot Road Birmingham. In case you didn't know her maiden name was Maddox.

Geoff

Hi Geoff,

this is the 1901 census I found;

1901 England Census
about Florence Ingram
Name: Florence Ingram
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1900
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Florence
Gender: Female
Where born: Aston, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Aston Manor
Ecclesiastical parish: Aston by Birmingham St Peter and St Paul
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address: 200 Witton Lane

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Aston Manor
ED, institution, or vessel: 43
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 27
Household Members: Name Age
Florence Ingram 30
William Ingram 7
Leonard Ingram 6
Henry Ingram 2
Florence Ingram 1

All born Aston and the children are Florences.


So it makes me wonder whether the parents could have returned to the UK.... almost going home to die??? The majority of family would still be in the area? I'll have another look for their deaths in the States and over here.



Dee x

Hello Dee,
I'm beginning to think you're right about the parents coming back to UK. Wonder if they became US citizens? Perhaps not, they hadn't by 1930. Is there a website like ellisislandrecords.org which records passengers coming into UK? What intrigues me is where was father Henry Ingram in 1901? I've discovered that he emigrated to US in 1907 on Mauretania. Next of kin Eliza Ingram, sister of 22 Lewins Road, Birchfields, Birmingham. Passage paid for by brother-in-law F I Egginson, 150 Walnut Street, Newark NJ
1910, living at 4 Jabez Street, Newark, NJ according to ship's manifest. (Info from EllisIsland site).
And what became of William and Leonard? In 1910 when the rest of the Ingrams were in US they were 17/16 and working/fending for themselves? The plot thickens!

Thanks for all your efforts

Geoff x

Dee
I've noticed Leonard Ingram doesn't show at all in 1911 census so maybe he died between 1901 & 1911, or emigrated somewhere other than USA? Australia maybe? Is that likely?

Geoff x

Maybe adding to the mystery, I can't find births for William and Leonard Ingram.


The 1901 census says all children born in Aston.


2 possibles for Henry -

Births Sep 1898 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ingram Henry Aston 6d 437

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1899 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ingram Henry Aston 6d 285




Births Jun 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

INGRAM Florence May Aston 6d 433



No matches for a William Ingram or Leonard Ingram that I can see.

Choccy,

It's possible that William and Leonard were born illegitimate I suppose, maybe before Florence Maddox married Henry Ingram (don't know when they tied the knot). If so would they be registered under Florence's maiden name then later given the Ingram name when she married (4 year gap between Henry junior and Leonard)? I don't suppose she had a previous marriage, it would be unusual in those days. As ever I'm just guessing!

Geoff