Genealogy Chat

Thanks for spotting that jax.

I was thinking of having a look this weekend to see if I could find anything for Jane (the original query) on the basis that the surname could be misspelt, since McAv... could very well sound like McGav...

Think you maybe right....could not understand why you would have brought this thread back on the boards

Very nice of them to delete and let you carry on though was'nt it :-(

jax

You're right Jax. Can't believe I was caught out by that. It was on the first page of the boards though, maybe someone added and deleted something before my post. :-S

This thread had not been touched for nearly two years?? Is Aprilshower still on the boards?

- and here (in 1861) is another Thurlow Street/Isabella/Lindon/Nelson set of data:

Name: Isabella Nelson
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Jane Nelson
Gender: Female
Where born: Lpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Anne
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Islington
ED, institution, or vessel: 24

Household schedule number: 177
Piece: 2693
Folio: 111
Page Number: 37
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Nelson 29
Isabella Nelson 14
John F Nelson 2
Mary Lindon 80
Nathan Holman 32
Mary Holman 33
Nathan Holman 9
Richard Holman 2

- but although the image says 14, I think Isabella would need to be a little younger than this is she is still to be a minor on marriage in 1872.

Actually, it was the Isabella name that caught my attention.

Looking at the Rowell baptisms in Liverpool, I see that the Isabella (one of the ten children born to Joseph and Mary between 1890 and 1905) was baptised Isabella Eveline.

[EDIT: in 1901, the Thurlow Street residents included widower Joseph Rowell age 58 and his son William James age 24, as a separate household, but sharing number 36 with William Williams and his family; and next door to Isabella Wilkinson at number 38, widow aged 47]

If there is a Nelson connection, then there is this entry for 1911:

Name: Isabella Wilkinson
Age in 1911: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 38 Thurlow St Liverpool <<<<<<<
Marital Status: Widowed
Registration district: Liverpool
Registration District Number: 453
Sub-registration district: Exchange
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Piece: 22161
Household Members:
Name Age
Isabella Wilkinson 50
William Rowell 36 <<<<<

and perhaps the marriage would be this one:
31 Mar 1872 Liverpool St Nicholas
Hugh Wilkinson to Isabella Eveline Gresswell Nelson
- Isabella's father is recorded as Francis Nelson and she is still a minor (although she still needs to lose about 10 years in age by 1911)

- just following up on Alvigal's posting:

Marriage Apr-May-Jun 1851 Liverpool

Jane Lindon
Francis Nelson

and 1851 census:

Name: Francis Nelson
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Nelson
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Preston, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: Vauxhall
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Dale Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 1n

Household schedule number: 45
Piece: 2179
Folio: 437
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Francis Nelson 30
Jane Nelson 20
Emma Elizabeth Nelson 2
Mary Jane Nelson 5 Mo <<<<<<<<<<

Presumably Jane Nelson (widow) and Mary Jane can be found in 1861?

There is a tree on A***** that has this

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921 about Joseph Rowell
Name: Joseph Rowell, joiner
Age: Full Age
Marriage Date: 13 Aug 1856
Parish: Liverpool St Jude
Spouse's Name: Jane Feddon
Father's Name: John Rowell, joiner
Spouse Father's Name: Robert Feddon


Date
13 Aug 1856
Location
st judes West Derby, Lancashire, England
Description
in St. Judes Churct W. Derby to Jane Feddon - lived Edge Mount. Witnesses Charles Duffy & Isabelle Feddon

There was a daughter, Jane Ann born in 1860.

Mary Jane's mother was a Jane Lindon 1828. No marriage found. She was a widow by 1861. Her husband was Francis Nelson.

Then Jane Potter Gaven was Joseph and William's mother. No marriage found.


Unfortunately I have no idea how accurate this is.

Today on Family Search I found the births and christenings of some of the children of Joseph and Mary, the oldest of which is John Joseph Rowell which says he was christened 26th of May 1890 Liverpool, but born in BUTE SCOTLAND on the 11th May .1890.


If this is his christening.

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Baptisms, 1813-1906 about John Joseph Rowell
Name: John Joseph Rowell
Birth Date: 11 May abt 1890
Baptism Date: 26 May 1890
Parish: Liverpool St Peter
Father's Name: Joseph Rowell
Mother's name: Mary Rowell


Is this not his birth?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about John Joseph Rowell
Name: John Joseph Rowell
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1890
Registration district: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 273

Sorry forgot Joseph Junior's date of birth.
Nothing coming up on the various spellings of McGaven either.
Think I'd better go to bed now

Hollyd

Hi Hollyd

Thanks for that, the Jane Potter from County Wigtown can't be my Jane if she is on the 1871 Scottish census as Joseph Jnr. was born 1865 in Liverpool to Jane Rowell late Mc.Goven formerly Potter..
Maybe they were not married at all and just said they were?
I am beginning to wonder if they were avoiding the census for some reason.
I wonder if it could be Mc.Goven not Mc.Gaven or Mac NOT Mc.
Just a thought but maybe they have made a mistake on the birth cert for Joseph as to his mothers name. I have two certificates with the wrong information on, so I know it's possible.
i appreciate your help

Thanks April

I've had a look at the Wigtown Jane on the 1851 census and her father was an agricultural labourer from Ireland. It's a long shot but perhaps Jane and Joseph went to Ireland for a few years.

Joseph isn't on any of the above censuses.

Also

1871 Census

Jane Potter age 26 District Whithorn, City/County Wigtown
Jane Potter age 25 District Linlithgow, City/County West Lothian
Jane Potter age 27 District Shettleston, City/County Glasgow city/Lanark
Jane Potter age 27 District Bridgeton, City/County Glasgow/ Lanark

Assuming the last 2 Janes are Potters by marriage as they haven't shown up before I think you have the choice of the first 2. Just checked the 1881 census and there's only one Jane and she's one of the Lanark ones.

Don't know if this helps any or not!!

Hi Hollyd

Thankyou so much for looking for me, I am wondering if they emigrated for a few years and then came back? From the information I have got, nothing seems to add up.
Where were they until 1881? If Mary Jane was born in Liverpool in 1862, where was she until 1891?
Where were Joseph and William in 1871?
Where was Joseph Snr. before 1881?

My brickwall !

Thanks April

Have just checked the censuses and got the following

1851
Jane Potter age 6 District Dalkeith, City/County Midlothian
Jane Potter age 6 District Penninhame, City/County Wigtown (possibly this one as Wigtown is near the Scottish Borders)

1861
Jane Potter age 17 Dist. Glasserton, City/County Wigtown
Jane Potter age 17 Dist. St. George, City/County Edinburgh City, Midlothian

19

Hi,

Had a look on Scotland's People but can't find a marriage for Joseph and Jane with Potter or McGaven or Rowell.

No sign of a John Joseph Rowell birth either...........

Hi April,
I've had a look on Scotlands People but can't find a marriage for either Joseph and Jane (under both Potter and McGaven) or any marriage for Jane to a McGaven - tried from 1855-1880.

Hollyd

Hi

Thanks Ozi, will do

April