Genealogy Chat

Are there experts anywhere that are good at tracing family members before 1853, other than in the 1841/1851 census

And any idea of what they might charge

I need a WDYTYA type expert

Mac

I read on another thread £ 300 gb no results promised

always worth testing us oldies first !

Before 1853 shouldn't be beyond us!

Why not give us some names and give us a go?

Fees are £000 per hour.

Birdi

Hello Mrs Scratchit

Sorry I didnt come back straight away

Here goes for what seems the thouandth time

1853 was the year that my Great Grandfather Alfred McElwain got married at St Giles Church Bloomsbury London, he married an Agnes Elizabeth Frew, he was a Tailor and she was a Tailoress, on the MC it stated his father's name was John and a Gardener

In 1857 he married again (Bigamously ?) to Ann Pope at St Bartholomews Church in Smithfield, this time his father John is stated as a Botanist (posh name for a gardener ?)

He had a Daughter Georgina in 1858 and then did a "runner?" to india in the Army where he had the Alias of Alfred McDonald until 1865 and was then "William McDonald", he was still William McDonald on return to London in the 1871 census

I know the history from 1853 but What I need is info as to where John and Alfred were before then found a John McElwain who married Martha Aungier at St Peters Church Liverpool in Jan 1828
Alfred is purported to have been born in Liverpool abt 1830

I have also found a John & Martha MacElwain had a Son "William baptised in Manchester Cathedral Jan 1831

Now coincidental evidence to date.................

It could be that William could be Alfred and changed it to that later when he grew up

As mentioned earlier, he used the name "William" in the Army

His first marriage produced a Son "William" Alexander in 1854 who died in the prescence of his Mother (proving he wasn't a widower)

Another later Son (my Grandfather) was called "William"

My Father was called Alfred "William"

His second Daughter was called Martha which coincidentaly fits in with a Scottish (and maybe Irish) tradition ............Named after her Grandmother ?

First son usually named after the father

So geography........ Liverpool, Manchester/ Salford, London City

Have not been able to confirm that the John in Liverpool was his Father and have not found any Brothers or Sisters

Thet all disappeared after 1831

There it is, I hope you can help me

By the way I use to post on the Liverpool Genealogy site

I had 350 replies, and 36.000 hits but nobody could get me over the wall

I will keep my fingers crossed

Mac xxxxxxx

This is your existing thread OldGeezer?

http://www.genesreunited.com.au/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1068302

Too bad that people have deleted so many replies I do hate to see that, but it seems that it bore no fruit at that time. Are there any other threads we should know about?

Just for info there is one McElwain record at FIBIS

The Indian Mutiny Medal Roll (British Forces) 1857-1859.
Given Names(s) John
Surname McElwain
Rank Corporal
Regiment or Ship 1st Battalion 23rd Foot (Royal Welsh Fusiliers)

http://search.fibis.org/frontis/bin/aps_person_search.php

This is the household in 1881 with second wife Ann


Name: Alfred Meelwaine
[Alfred McElwain]
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Isleworth
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address: No 15 Stafford Place South St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Tailor

Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Isleworth

Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Meelwaine 47
Ann Meelwaine 42
Alfred Meelwaine 19 born in India <<<
Martha Meelwaine 17 " "
Joseph Meelwaine 14 " "
William Meelwaine 11 " "


Do you know the person who has corrected the name at Ancestry? if not and since you do not subscribe there I am sure one of us would be happy to transmit a message to that person through Ancestry if you send an email address by personal message here that can be passed on. Oh unfortunately I see that person has not been active at Ancestry in many months but they might still receive a message sent there.

Of course you do know the three other people who have the India-born McElwain children in their trees here at Genes?

And you do have these records?

Ann McDonald alias McElwain
Birth: 11 SEP 1865
Christening: 26 SEP 1865 Hydrabad, , Maharashtra, India
Father: William McDonald alias McElwain
Mother: Ann
Source Information:
Batch No.: C001724

Martha McDonald or McElwain
Birth: 03 AUG 1863
Christening: 23 AUG 1863 Kurrachee, Maharashtra, India
Father: Alfred McDonald or McElwain
Mother: Anne
Source Information: C001722


Just for the rest of us to see then as I would assume they are a source of your info about the surname and given name changes.

Oops - Georgina was in fact born in India too??

Georgina Elizabeth Elwain McDonald
Birth: 20 MAR 1858
Christening: 02 MAY 1859 Bombay, Maharashtra, India
>>> Father: William Alfred Elwain McDonald
Mother: Ann
Source Information:
Batch No.: C001549


William McDonald
Birth: 20 OCT 1869
Christening: 24 OCT 1869 Murree, , West Bengal, India
Father: William McDonald
Mother: Ann
Source Information:
Batch No.: C750245

Thankyou Bruce

Georgina was born in London City but I didn't know she was Cristened in India

I Knew my Grandfather was born in India so I made a visit to the India Office at the British Library next to St Pancras,

I I found Alfred Henry b1861, Martha 1863 and Ann 1865 but was unable to find Joseph and William, my Grandfather as I ran out of time
All the details of the India births and where they were born were given to me by a member called Victor

Ann disappeared but the 103rd Regiment Historian told me that in 1865 the regiment lost over 100 men women and children to Cholera, so She could have been one of them

Anyway she wasn't on the list in the 1871 census and all the others were

I have a posting on Rambling Rose's look-up thread at moment but nothing has come off it so far, I put it on about the same time as this thread and there are a couple of threads that go back a very long time, they disappeared off the pages long ago, but I think I still have them in "my threads"

Mac

I did not see a birth for Georgina in England, hm. I still don't. Can you post the details? just for completeness. I must say I don't really see a baby being born in England and then christened 5 weeks later in India.

I don't know Rambling Rose's lookup thread but it is generally not quite fair to ask someone to do lookups when they do not know that others are working on the same problem so I would advise that you give her the web address for this thread so she can consult it.

Threads don't disappear ever and they can be revived easily by adding a post to them which is a better idea than starting new threads because that way anyone reading knows what efforts have already been made and what trails followed etc.

I've spend quite a bit of time this evening looking for all possible names everywhere I can think of but with no luck!

All Agnes Frews in the censuses are in Scotland. I wonder whether that could be where Alfred/William met her. So here is a long shot for you, lol


1851

Name: William McDonald
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relationship: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool
Parish Number: 168A
Civil parish: Aberdeen West
Town: Aberdeen
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: 8 Schoolhill
Occupation: Guard Raibvay Frnnigus

Household Members:
Name Age
William Donald 45
Elizabeth Donald 45
James Donald 14
George Donald 12
William Donald 9
Katherine Donald 8
Elizabeth Donald 7
Helen Donald 5
William McDonald 19
Jean McAllan 22
Jean Philip 22
Mary Ross 18


Do you have Agnes Elizabeth Frew's age and father's name from the marriage certificate?

Oh dear, little bits of information all over, this is in Rambling Rose's thread

'Alfred did a runner after marrying again in 1857 but the last mention of his first wife Agnes Elizabeth (nee Frew) that I found was she was present at the death of their son, Alexander William in 1858'

Where is this death recorded please?? I do not see that any more than I see Georgina's birth!

Oh is it this one?

Deaths Dec 1858 (>99%)
McELWAIN William Strand 1b 342

not Alexander William but William Alexander?

Births Jun 1854 (99%)
McELWAIN William Alexander St Giles 1b 347

Georgina Elizabeth born London City 1858, April May June Quarter 1C61

It WAS William Alexander, I'm getting on a bit and sometimes I get a little confused, I think I may be in the early stages of that Alkaseltzer disease, you know, when you cant remember the right words and things

Looking at the date of Georgina's Christening, May 1859 now tells me that he must have arrived in India early 59, I have never been sure until now

He was a Corporal right from the beginning with the 3rd Bombay Army which became the 103rd Regt, this according to the Regt Historian was very unusual but it may have been an honorary rank as he was the Regimental Tailor
He was still with the 103rd in 1871 in the census living on York St (Marylebone area), I think he was still listed as an Army Tailor in 1881

In those days the time served in the Army was 21 years, but in the middle 1860's they could opt for 12 years regular service and 10 reserve

In the 1871 census as William McDonald it's stated that he was born in Edinburgh........1881 as Alfred McElwain Liverpool

I got the marriage of John & Martha at St Peters Liverpool from the IGI
also the Baptism of William at Manchester Cathedral but it was entered as Mac Elwain with a space between c & E

Regards

Mac

Hi all , I was having a look on Ancestry for Mac , but with no success on 1841/51 despite trying every variant of names
( Mac's ancestors and mine were close to each other in Isleworth hence i have a 'vested interest'... and because Mac is a love of course :))

Plop plop fizz fizz, don't know how I missed it since I've been searching with as little detail as possible and the spelling variant shouldn't have tripped me up!

Births Jun 1858
McElwine Georgina Elizabeth London City 1c 61

I've looked at every Mc/MacELWAIN/ELWAINE/ILWAIN/ILLWAINE not to mention McElvin etc etc and I think I know 'em all personally now.

Regimental tailor. Well well, my grandfather might have painted watercolours of the officers in the uniforms he created. Except my grandfather was in the Dragoon Guards and wasn't born til after 1890, lol. And my wicked aunt made off with all those sorts of things so I've never seen them anyway. But hm I understand she now has the permanent senior moment herself, so maybe she could be persuaded to part with them ... if she remembers where they are ...

Anyhow that was fast work between birth in England and christening in India I still have to say. There must have been an urgent shortage of uniforms!

I think more like an urgent need to escape the Law Bruce

n

Still hoping !!

Only just got into this - but that christening was a year and 6 weeks after the birth.

oops.

I find as I try to figure out when someone who was 63 when they died in 1927 was born etc I am becoming increasingly dependent on the calculator that sits by my elbow.

1869
- 1868
= .......

lol