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Honeywell
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15 Sep 2009 17:01 |
Thanks you for that, I know there was a Joshua Simmons who was transported to Australia.
Thanks every one once again for their help
Anita
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AuntySherlock
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15 Sep 2009 12:53 |
Did you see this?
On Ancestry under England and Wales Criminal Registers. The charge was "uttering a counterfeit coin". The sentence was 12 months.
Name: Joshua Simmons Age: 17 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818 Date of Trial: 23 Mar 1835 Trial Year: 1835 Location of Trial: Surrey, England Sentence: Imprisonment Crime: See Image Date of Execution or Release: See Image
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AuntySherlock
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14 Sep 2009 22:37 |
Here is a death registration for Phoebe Simmons. Twelve months before he married Esther. Only way you are going to know if it is the correct Phoebe is to buy the death certificate. Do it through
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
The certificate will tell you Phoebe's maiden name and if it is Cohen that will give you her date of birth and the obvious reason why Joshua remarried.
You could also try certificates for Maria Simmons, so we need to find a birth or marriage record for her.
Death Record Name: Phoebe Simmons Year of Registration: 1845 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: Whitechapel County: London, Middlesex Volume: 2 Page: 384 (click to see others on page
OK I will leave you to sift through that pile of information. We won't delete anything because it helps others to see what has been looked at.
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AuntySherlock
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14 Sep 2009 22:15 |
Here is a Maria Simmons 1851 census. By 1856 she would have been 21 and therefore old enought to witness a marriage. Family group has Elizabeth Simmons x 2 in it.
Name: Maria Simmons Age: 16 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: John Mother's Name: Elizabeth Gender: Female Where born: Hackney, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Hackney County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Registration district: Hackney Sub-registration district: West Hackney ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Household schedule number: 114 Household Members: Name Age John Simmons 32 Elizabeth Simmons 35 John Simmons 32 Elizabeth Simmons 35 Maria Simmons 16 Joseph Simmons 5 William Simmons 3 Charles Simmons 8 Mo John Simmons 16 Elizabeth Simmons 7 There is a major problem with the original image of this census entry. The names of John and Elizabeth at the bottom of one page have been listed again at the top of the next page. In the first instance they are listed as "head" and "wife", in the second they are listed as "son" and "daughter".
So you can probably delete one set of John and Elizabeth Simmons from this record.
And it is assuming that Maria Simmons was related in some way to Joshua Simmons. I still like the idea that Simmons was her married name.
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AuntySherlock
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14 Sep 2009 13:57 |
Name: Elizabeth Simmons Year of Registration: 1856 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: Whitechapel County: London, Middlesex Volume: 1c Page: 664 (click to see others on page)
And yes the match is Abraham Lee. And their daughter's name is Elizabeth!!!!!!
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AuntySherlock
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14 Sep 2009 13:45 |
And if you go to the 1871 census you will find Joshua and Esther Simmons living with their children and grandchildren, Elizabeth Simmons and Esther Simmons.
So either these two are the daughters of Elias Simmons (Joshua and Esther's son) or they are the children of Elizabeth Simmons (with no husband).
Oh it does become messy.
Have not forgotten Maria Simmons. Tried searching for her as maria Simmons, plenty of them; Maria Cohen, likewise. Hmm there's one more I haven't tried.
By the way. Do you have a tree on Ancestry. If not there are a couple with Elizabeth Simmons in them. One has Esther's name spelled as Levy, instead of Lyons. Still think it is the same person.
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AuntySherlock
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14 Sep 2009 12:38 |
So they were married in June quarter 1839.
Need to look at this one. It can not be your Simmons however the names are very similar. For reference purposes.
Name: Joshua Simmons Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816 Gender: Male Where born: Middlesex, England Civil parish: Christ Church Spitalfields Hundred: Ossulstone (Tower Division) County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street Address:
Occupation: View image Registration district: Whitechapel Sub-registration district: Artillery Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Joshua Simmons 25 Caroline Simmons 25 Pheobe Simmons 7 Julia Simmons 5 Sarah Simmons 3 Henry Simmons 1 Elizabeth Simmons 6 Mo
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AuntySherlock
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14 Sep 2009 12:36 |
Name: Phoebe Cohen Year of Registration: 1839 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: City of London County: London Volume: 2 Page: 162 (click to see others on page)
This is Phoebe's part of the marriage record.
And here is Joshua's match.
Name: Joshua Simmons Year of Registration: 1839 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: City of London County: London Volume: 2 Page: 162 (click to see others on page
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AuntySherlock
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14 Sep 2009 12:28 |
This is the 1851 census for Joshua. Note: where born should be Spitalfields, it is quite clear on the census original. The child Sarah Lyons is Joshua's step daughter. Esther's maiden name is Lyons. Free BDM shows marriage in Dec quarter 1846. There are two entries one under the name Lyon and the other Lyons. And yes they have another child called Elizabeth who must have been born about 1850.
Name: Joshua Simmons Age: 29 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Esther Gender: Male Where born: Bell Lane Grital Fields Civil parish: Westminster St James County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Registration district: St James Westminster Sub-registration district: Berwick Street ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 208 Household Members: Name Age Joshua Simmons 29 Esther Simmons 37 Sarah Lyons 13 Simon Simmons 12 Rachel Simmons 9 Mo Asher Simmons 3 Elias Simmons 2 Mo Elizabeth Simmons 1
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AuntySherlock
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13 Sep 2009 11:47 |
There are 20 or more Maria Simmons listed on the 1851 census. Dates of birth ranging from 1772 to 1850. Very difficult to chose which one without more info. Could she have been the sister of the bride, or even the sister of the groom. If so could you search census information for those two pre marriage. If you can't send me the names and I'll have a look for you.
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AnnCardiff
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13 Sep 2009 02:36 |
David JACOBS Head M Male 51 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England General Dealer Martha JACOBS Daur M Female 48 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Housewife Lewis JACOBS Son Male 21 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Cigar Maker Jessie JACOBS Daur Female 17 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Assists At Home Domestic Solomon JACOBS Son Male 15 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Cigar Maker Isabella JACOBS Daur Female 10 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Scholar Leah JACOBS Daur Female 5 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Scholar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling 73 Ernest St Census Place London, Middlesex, England Family History Library Film 1341106 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 0481 / 104 Page Number 65
1881
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Honeywell
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12 Sep 2009 23:47 |
Would a kind person do a look up for me, I am trying to find out who a Maria Simmons actually is ,she is a witness at a wedding in 1856 Whitechapel Register Office so I assume she would be living in the Whitechapel area. A David Jacobs was the other witness also probably living in Whitechapel. I have a feeling Simmons is her married name.
I am trying to register FTM2009 with a 6 month ancestry membership but guess what the computer says NO help!
Many thanks in advance
Anita
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