Genealogy Chat

Here's the link. James never married Ellen because she was already married. She is listed as married here and he is single.


1861 England Census
about James Munday
Name: James Munday
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Head
Father's Name: Daniel
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Tenterden, Kent, England
Civil parish: Biddenden
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Tenterden
Sub-registration district: Rolvenden
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
James Munday 26 Single
Ellen Curties 24 Housekeeper married.
Sarah Curties 2 Boarder
John H Curties 8 Mo Boarder
Daniel Munday 67 Father
Mary Munday 74 Mother

Rose

Looking at Ellen's born Cranbrook c1837 who married a Curtis:

Marriages Sep 1852
CURTIS Ebenezer Cranbrook 2a 656
Dungey Ellen Cranbrook 2a 656

Rose

This one's missing his wife in 1861:

1861 England Census
about Ebenezer Curties
Name: Ebenezer Curties
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Biddenden, Kent, England

Civil parish: Biddenden
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Tenterden
Sub-registration district: Rolvenden
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 26
Household Members: Name Age
Ebenezer Curties 28
Elizabeth Curties 8
James Curties 6
Ann Curties 4
Sarah Batt 19 Housekeeper.

Rose

Ebenezer in 1871with new "wife". It does say illegally married on the image:

1871 England Census
about Ebenezer Curtiss
Name: Ebenezer Curtiss
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Biddenden, Kent, England
Civil parish: Biddenden
Ecclesiastical parish: Canterbury
Town: Biddenden
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Tenterden
Sub-registration district: Rolvenden
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 56
Household Members: Name Age
Ebenezer Curtiss 38
Ann Chapman 32
Annie Curtiss 16
Mary C Chapman 5
Sarah Curtiss Chapman 3
Emily Curtiss Chapman 1

Rose

gosh everyone how did you come up with all this info im staggered! trying to get my head around this are they munday or curtis.
Walter is on the 1901 census on board a ship "the blake"
he to was taken to grays to do training and from there was brought up to grimsby(where i am) and indentured this info i have.

Yes i have his marriage cert he married alice here in grimsby and there is no fathers name on cert

thanks again sue

Not sure why their names changed. They were registered as Mundays even though Ellen and James weren't married.

Next step should be the order Walter's birth cert.

Rose

thankyou thankyou all so much, i have been trying for two years to get round this and you all seem to have done it in 2 hours. no wonder i couldnt find them when its all so mixed up, thanks goodness my mum isnt around to read this, she was such a lady and would have been mortified to think there were unmaried mums about haha.
it now feels as if im not from the stock i thought, strange feeling but thanks all once again, i will order the cert straight away

kind regards sue

Susan, I think we all find surprising information about what stock we come from. Certainly unmarried mums are nothing new and in Victorian times (and earlier) many brides were already pregnant when they went to the altar - possibly for a shotgun wedding. The closest thing in my family that I've found so far is with my 2x gt-g'parents; they got married on Boxing Day and my gt-g'father was born on 18th Jan!

Let us know when the cert arrives on here.

You have more siblings for Walter now and some half siblings to trace also. Ellen must have been very young when she married Ebenezer.

Rose

nudging up for susan now she has the birth cert!

Susan has mistakenly started a new thread -

This is what she has posted on it - (just in case she doesn't manage to get back to this one)

'hi everyone posted last week about birth for walter daniel curtis and you all came up with a scenario why i couldnt find a birth and put me on the path of munday as a surname,i now have the cert details as follows;
11 may 1873 lion house newington
name; walter daniel;
boy. father; james munday, mother ellen munday formely dungey occupation of father; farm labourer, informant; ellen munday mother lion house newington, registered 21st june1873, so where please do i go from here, how can i be sure that this is the same person as walter daniel curtis i would appreciate a point in the right direction as how to find out what happened to their mother? and try to explain how they ended up being put in the workhouse under curtis, there is no explanation on the admittance sheet from the workhouse records..best regards sue'

Susan,

I think we can say with a good degree of certainty that they are the same people.

We know that Ellen Dungey married Ebenezer Curtis before she met James Munday. We know they never divorced because he's listed as illegally married.

Rose

thankyou all very much for your help i now know were to go next so can crack on without thinking theyve all been "beamed up from where?"

thanks again sue