Genealogy Chat

Do you have Henry's marriage cert? I don't suppose there are any relatives as witnesses if he married in Wales?

Rose

I have confirmation now that William and Mary Ann Ridout had a son called Henry, but it is Henry George not Henry Charles, my grandfather.

I think I shall start the search again, with just the facts as I know them, ie Henry Charles married my grandmother and, on the wedding certificate, his father is given as William Banks, a shoemaker. I don't know his wife's name. I can only guess at their ages.

The parish records will be online soon, who knows what they will reveal?

Thanks for replying, it made me look up what I had ordered and what I was copying it from; my order was for Vol 4 Page 58 - that's Mary Ridout's birth certificate.

If you hadn't asked I might well not've realised. I shall order the correct certificate immediately.

Just going to bang my head against a nearby wall.
Jenx

Hmmmmm.

Was this from the GRO? What info. did you list when you requested the certificate. If you list too much and there is any discrepancy, they won't send it.

Rose

I think I might be back to the drawing board yet again as I have just received a refund on the marriage certificate for Mary Ann Ridout and William Henry Banks that I ordered, as there is no record on file.

Yes, I found that one too, I'm going to send for it. They got married the same year as the William Banks and Mary Ann Cobb that I'd mistakenly put as Henry Charles's parents. What a coincidence. Why are there so many Mary Ann's around at that time, I wonder.

Crossed over about birth record and mothers name
Found marriage of William Henry banks to Mary ann Ridout Mar qtr 1874
Bethnal Green

Hi
Could William have been born before his parents were married?
Do you have a maiden name of his mother?

Thanks Ozibird, I've already sent for Philips birth certificate and it gave Mary Ann Ridout for his mother. This was the start of my confused state.

Thanks Portland Rose, I have added that Henry to my spreadsheet, which is growing. I now have 5 within the age range plus one born 1843, I have no idea why I added that one. Losing the plot.

I'm going to make a list of certs to order and will send them off over the weekend. Then I just have to hang around for the postman to find the key to my ancestors. Well, this branch anyway.

I've really appreciated the support from everyone. I hope to be able to set the records straight soon.
Jenx

There's always a possibility his name was changed between the birth registration and his baptism/marriage. That was the case with my grandmother.

What about this one?

Births Sep 1881
Banks Henry George Hackney 1b 599

I can't seem to find this one on a census or see a death.

Rose

I think you'd be better off getting Philip's birth cert. Then you'd know mother for sure. Getting Mary Ridout's marriage cert won't tell you if you've got the right couple.

Ozi.

I know, Quinsgran, I know, it is all such a muddle. This is what I have:

1) Marriage certificate William Banks (33) to Mary Ann Cobb (25)
dated 25 December 1874
St Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey
Vol: 1d Page: 89

2) Free BMD Marriage Index
Mary Ridout
Jan-Feb-Mr 1874
Bethnal Green
Greater London, Mddx
Volume 1c Page 562
William Henry Banks is listed on same page.
(I will order this certificate)

3) Free BMD Birth Index
Mary Ridout
Year of Registration 1847
Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Camberwell
County: London, Surrey
Vol 4 Page 58

So yes, it's official, I am in a muddle. I have to:
--Research Mary Ann Ridout more thoroughly
--Check all the census records, although I am sure that Henry Charles did have many brothers, my uncle has confirmed this. He also told me that one of these brothers suffered an injury, maybe losing a limb. I was heartened to see that on the 1891 census Wm junior was a cabinet maker and in 1901 he was a mattress turner - "could he have been unlucky with a chisel?" I wondered. How naive!

I can only say that, when I was researching William Banks, about 5 years ago, I was new to genealogy and thought it would be simple. I have grown up since then.

And thanks, Portland Rose for checking the army records for William. I have a photo of Henry Charles Banks in uniform (it's on my tree), he's wearing jodphurs and carrying a riding whip. Somebody has writton on the back of the photo that he was in the Irish Dragoons. I haven't had the time to check out this aspect yet, and the badge on his hat isn't too clear.

I foolishly deferred retirement a few years back but I think I might need to do it now, just to keep on top of my ancestors!

Jen.
The census information isnt making sense. You have the marriage of William Banks and Mary Ann Cobb age 33 and 25.

This was 1874 dec qt St Saviour Southwark. The ages for William and Mary Ann are not matching.
On the same reg page in 1874 is Ada Cobb.
Have you looked for the 2 together on earlier census to check for Mary Ann Cobbs age.. It could be you are mixing up the 2 Mary Anns.
It could also be you are mixing up the 2 census for William Banks/Mary Ann

I had a look for his WW1 records but I'm not seeing any obvious ones.

I'm assuming he served because no children were born during the war.

Rose

So Philip's mother is listed as Mary Ann Ridout but you have a marriage cert for Mary Ann Cobb?

Rose

Oh, where do I start??? :)

1) I have the parents marriage certificate - Wm Banks (33) and Mary Ann Cobb (25), Church of St Matthew, Newington BUT this may be the wrong marriage as there is another Wm Banks who married Mary Ann Ridout in the same year. This is another ongoing research project.

2) Yes, Phillip (born 1880) is Henry's brother. I sent for the certificate and discovered the Mary Ann mixup (see (1) above).

3) Re the 1901 Census, Henry is on the London 1901 census but his birthplace is put as Llandudno, Wales. The 1891 has Hackney as his birthplace (Henry aged 8).

4) Re the 1901 Wales Census - he was noted as agricultural groom in the profession/occupation, which ties in with family history. Hey, I think I have a Eureka moment, his name is down as Bankes, maybe I should look his birth up with that spelling. Now, I've not posted details before, so I hope this is correct:

Name: Henry Bankes
Age in 1901: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England
Civil Parish: Llangadock
Ecclesiastical parish: St Cadog and David
County/Island: Carmarthenshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Llandovery
Sub registration district: Llangadock
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 9

I am overwhelmed by all your help, thank you so much! This has been one of the most helpful and friendly forums I've ever been on.

Have you found his parents marriage?

For ref.

1891 England Census
about Henry Banks
Name: Henry Banks
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Hackney, London, England

Civil Parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: Dalston Holy Trinity
Town: Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Hackney
Sub registration district: West Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Banks 42
Mary Ann Banks 47
William Banks 17
Fred K Banks 15
Charles Banks 12
Phillip Banks 11
Henry Banks 8
Edward Banks 4
Albert Banks 3
Arthur Banks 1

1901 England Census
about Henry Banks
Name: Henry Banks
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William J
Mother's Name: Mary A
Gender: Male
Where born: Llandudno, Wiltshire, England

Civil Parish: Tottenham
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England


Registration district: Edmonton
Sub registration district: Tottenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 61
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 264
Household Members: Name Age
William J Banks 50
Mary A Banks 53
William J Banks 25
Frederick Banks 23
Charles Banks 22
Philip Banks 21
Henry Banks 19
Edward Banks 16
Albert Banks 14
Arthur Banks 12

The image definitely says Wales Llandudno and none of the other children born there.

I wonder if he wasn't a natural child of this family as you said he went to live in Wales after 1901.

I don't see him on the 1901 Wales census although you said he was on both.

Christine

Have you found any of the other children? Is this Phillip?

Births Mar 1880
BANKS Philip John Bethnal Green 1c 194

1881 Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
William BANKS Head M Male 32 Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England Boot Rivetter
Mary A. BANKS Wife M Female 33 Camberwell, Middlesex, England
William BANKS Son Male 6 Kingsland, Middlesex, England
Fredrick BANKS Son Male 5 Hackney, Middlesex, England
Charles BANKS Son Male 2 Hackney, Middlesex, England
Philip BANKS Son Male 1 Hackney, Middlesex, England

Source Information:
Dwelling 24 Hedgers Grove
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341068
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0315 / 90
Page Number 18

Rose