Genealogy Chat

WilliamJ Sanders year and place of birth unknown. Living in Plymouth included in 1952 telephone directory. married to Maggie Sanders year place of birth unknown. Date of marriage unknown. They had a daughter Joan Sanders who died aged 19.Isaw Maggie in about 1949 . I have searched through marriages phone book entries. Iam beginning to think Maggie was not Margaret and Joan was not the first name of their daughter,I have been looking through deaths for her . MYfather was born in 1908 and she had been alive then . They were cousins. My father was an only child. Is this a hopeless case? Any suggestions gratefully received. Ihave noticed you do seem to be able to work miracles here. Best wishes to everyone

Which of these people was a cousin of your fathers? Was it William, Margaret or Joan?

Your father's name would help too.

Kath. x

Dear Kathleen Maggie was cousin. My fathers name was Fernley Dymott born 1908 Thanks for showing an interest.

Sorry I dont know when she Maggie died either phew!!

Do you know Maggie's maiden name?

The Devon FHS "Plymouth Marriage index" shows this marriage

Groom SANDERS, WILLIAM JOHN
Bride SPARKES, MAGGIE
Date: 7 April 1920
Church: ST PETER


The GRO reference details are:

Name SPARKES Maggie
Year 1920
Qtr April - June
District Plymouth
Volume.5b
Page 687

Pete

Any relations here?

Marriages Jun 1906
DYMOTT William Ernest T Devonport 5b 757
Sparkes Nellie Jane Devonport 5b 757

Births Sep 1912 (mothers maiden name Sparkes)
Dymott Frederick R S Sparkes Plymouth 5b 345

Wonder if Joan was Betty Joan. Mothers maiden name Sparkes

Births Dec 1921
Sanders Betty J Sparkes Devonport 5b 486

Sandra has confirmed that Nellie and William are her grandparents so looks like we are on the right track.

Could anyone please find Nellie on the 1891/1901, I think this is her birth

Births Jun 1885
Sparkes Nellie Jane Newton A. 5b 144

Sandra also said that Nellie had a brother Frederick born 1854 but that would make him quite a bit older than her?

Fingers crossed for the 1891/1901 as we are still trying to find out more about Maggie Sparkes

Many thanks to anyone who can help

1891 census:

Piece: RG12/1686 Place: St Thomas -Devon Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Kenn Ecclesiastical Parish: Kenn
Folio: 11 Page: 15 Schedule: 101
Address: Baker's Shop



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Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
HOLLETT Fredrick Head W M 60 Baker (Employer) Devon - Kenn
HOLLETT Thomas Son S M 29 Baker (Employee) Devon - Kennford
HOLLETT Emma Dau S F 27 Shop Assistant (Employee) Devon - Kennford
HOLLETT William H Son S M 23 Baker (Employee) Devon - Kennford
HOLLETT Gertrude Dau S F 20 Shop Assistant (Employee) Devon - Kennford
SPARKS Fredrick Grnson S M 6 Scholar Devon - Torquay
SPARKS Nellie J Grndau S F 5 Scholar Devon - Torquay
GRIBBLE John Servnt S M 31 Baker (Employee) Devon - Kenn


This would put Frederick's birth c1884

Hollett/Sparkes marriage?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Sep 1881 (>99%)
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HOLLETT Margaret Elizabeth Newton A. 5b 253
HUNT Robert Newton A. 5b 253
PEPPRELL Annie Eliza Newton A. 5b 253
Sparkes Henry Walter Newton A. 5b 253

Thank you Pete, perhaps 1854 was a typo.

So here are Nellie's parents (I think).

Marriages Sep 1881
HOLLETT Margaret Elizabeth Newton A. 5b 253
Sparkes Henry Walter Newton A. 5b 253

I hope someone can find Maggie. Would be very grateful if someone could look at the 1901 just in case Maggie pops up with Nellie,

Selena

Received a PM from Sandra, wonder if we can help her take this further

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I have Maggie Sparkes marriage cert. Her father was Henry JOHN Sparkes .My g grandfather being Henry Walter Sparkes. Of course it is possible to have brothers with the same first name!?and Maggie was born in 1898. They are not showing up on any censuses. H.J. deceased by1920 time of marriage

Maggie Sparkes 1898, so her father was

Births Jun 1861
SPARKES Henry Walter Newton A 5b 161
Could Maggie (or the registrar) have made a mistake over Henry's middle name?

Where was Maggie born?

Could this be Henry on 1881

Ann H. SMITH Head W Female 32 Spon, Middlesex, England Annuitant
Frances SMITH Daur U Female 25 Islington, Middlesex, England Governess
Alice A. SMITH Daur U Female 23 Southend, Essex, England
James TAYLOR Boarder U Male 30 (B), The Netherlands Commission Agent
John SPARKE Boarder Male 24 Cornwall, England Warehouseman
Henry SPARKE Boarder U Male 20 Cornwall, England Warehouseman

Dwelling 18 Barnsbury Grove
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341052
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0241 / 21
Page Number 33

What about Nellie's marriage certificate? What is the name of her father?

Pete

Nellies father was Henry Walter Sparkes b. 1861 in Torquay Devon. Her mother was Margaret Hollett of Kenn Devon.

In 1881 Henry Walter is living with his married sister Mary Jane Laskey in Tormoham Torquay at 24 Melville Road.

By 1891, The children of Henry and Margaret are living at Kenn with their grandparents the Holletts. Magaret Sparkes is living in Plymouth as a cook. Henry WAlter Sparkes has either died or left. I have search many years of deaths and been unable to pick himup.
In the 1881 census living with Mary Laskey and H.W. Is Miriam Sparkes , his sister. She died at 19 could she have had a child? Hope this helps. Thank you all for your continued interest.

Sandii,

What are you trying to establish?

You have found Margaret Sparks in the 1891 census working as cook in the home of physician Chas A HINGSTON. She is listed as married, but is the only Sparks at that address. You have also located her children, living at the home of her parents.

Can you explain how you have arrived at the year of birth for Maggie? I assume it from her marriage certificate. ie the age that she admitted to at the time of her marriage. Was hubby younger?

There is a birth on FreeBMD that warrants further investigation. If I were you I would invest £7 in that birth certificate. (I am particularly good at spending others money!)

Births Dec 1895
Sparks Margaret
District: E. Stonehouse
Volume 5b
Page 270

This birth certificate will give her mother's maiden name and tell you if this is the Maggie you are trying to locate.

I assume that the next challenge is to locate either Margaret or Maggie in the 1901 census. Do you have access to the 1901 census on Ancestry?

Pete

I am trying to establish Maggie Sparkes mother and father. Ihave only taken Maggies est. age from marriage cert. Ihave not been able to pick up Maggie in 1901 or 1911. Ithink Margaret Sparkes might have married again in either Dec. 1894 E.Stonehouse or Jun 1895 in Plym. perhaps she produced another child ie Maggie before she married again.I realise Iwill have to get a cert. BMD has not helped. I have not bought a wrong cert. yet but have a feeling my first may be close!!!!!!!