Genealogy Chat

Just wondered who registered the death and have you tried searching for a will? It is £5, but may be worth a shot if you have an address on the death certificate. I suppose if he died in hospital it may not be helpful :(

Good Morning!
I have had a thought (dangerous I know!)
When someone dies in hospital, what happens to their medical records? Can an immediate relative have any access to the records when the person in question has been dead for a certain length of time, and if so where would you enquire to about this? surely there would have been a date of birth on his medical / hospital records? Likewise for any tax records or national insurance contributions, is there anyway of gaining access to this sort of information from anywhere, its not like we would nbe prying into the financial situation of a dead relative, just after a birth date, or any localities he worked in.
If anyone knows the answer to this or where I should enquire to i would, again, be very grateful
Mandy

If he was german born, his original surname would likely have been Neumann, the German equivalent of Newman, and a fairly common surname in Germany.

Hi Basman,
Some interesting thoughts, just had another look at the ring and its definitely J H N W. That could make some sense as we could have Joseph Newman and someone with the initials H W. It is a possibility that Joseph was married before and therefore could not marry Margaret and that could be why we can't find any marriage record for them. I believe Joseph was known as HARRY (not 100% though) and Margaret was definitely known as Peggy
It is another avenue I can explore though that I would not have thought of ! I was also unaware that a couples initials were often intertwined on signet rings - so I really appreciate your post!
Mandy

another thought, both had multiple christian names-----its possible that if they did marry, they could have done so in the names they were known by---I have this in my own family.

basman

Hi Amanda
just a thought. is it possible that you are wrong about the initials on the ring---that it's not JHNW, but JMHW ? you said that it was difficult to read as it was intertwined. Years ago wedding rings for men were not fashionable, but signet rings with the intertwined initials of the couple were.
It would stop you going on a wild goose chase for a name that may only exist in your mind.

Basman

Thanks Jenny, I am beginning to suspect that they were never married - just pretending to be possibly for appearances? Where to go from here? He worked therefore we can presume he paid tax / national insurance - is there any way of tracing him that way? ( Probably showing complete lack of any knowledge here!)

Just to let you know that I have been on the 1911 census.
I typed in Joseph Harold and just put the full stop for the surname, as suggested by another member. I then put the year of Birth 1897 +/- 2 years.

I then looked at all with the surname starting with a W. Found each of them on the 1901 census and checked the parents marriages.
There are no marriages with the wife's surname Newman.

Will keep on checking this thread as I am so intruiged, lol.

Jenny

More thoughts.

Did the father change his name in order to enter the army or other service during WW2? My husband's granddad changed his name in the 1880s to - yes - White! because he had deserted from more than one regiment and wanted to join up again. His eldest child is formally registered as Nellie White Weaver, but the others are just Weaver, his original name. But on the 1911 census they are all named Whiteweaver!

He is missing on the census records in 1881 and 1891, don't know where to look at all.

Margaret

Can I get this right? (I am getting old!).

Husband's father is Joseph Harold Newman (poss White). Joe's wife is Margaret Elizabeth Kate White. Hubby's sister is Margaret Diane Newman.

Joseph HNW was born 1898, died 1961.

Margaret EK White's parents were Arthur Edward White and Dora May Neale. They had lots of children, Beatrice, Edith, William, Alice, Florence (who married a fella called White), and others.

Is that it?

So really what has thrown you on the trail is this ring with four initials, JHNW?

Thoughts.

Is it possibly the ring of one of Margaret EK's siblings? And not the ring of Joseph.

Margaret

I have just asked my husband and he has no recollection - i will check with his sister tomorrow to see if she recalls anything. I will take the ring to the jewellers this week to see if they can identify it and will let you know the date
Mandy

Does anyone remember what month and day his birthday was on?

Rose

Mandy,

This could help with the ring:

http://www.britishhallmarkingcouncil.gov.uk/publications/hallmarks2.pdf

Rose

Evening everyone,
Thanks for all your input - quite overwhelming
Right before anyone wastes their time ( which believe me is greatly appreciated!) I can give you all info on Margaret, her parents were Arthur Edward White and her mother was Dora May Neale. Arthur was born in 1886 and Dora in 1889. Everything I know on Margaret, Dora and Arthur we have verified, it is Joseph that keeps drawing a blank. I am interested in the theory that Joseph may have lived close to them - I am wondering if he was a relative or that maybe his surname could be Newman-White and that Josephs mother s maiden name was Newman?
Portland Rose - I have no idea whether Joseph was Canadian or American - I have asked my husbands sister whether she recalls an accent but she is convinced there was none, As to the hallmarks on the ring i do not know how to distinguish them, they are very worn, It starts with the letters J.C.M then a number 9 then next two blocks are unreadable and then lastly there is a Q.
Mommylonglegs - Beatrice is definitely Margarets sister , I believe Edith is but have not checked this yet, there was also a William Henry 1908 and an Alice May 1910 - there were, I believe 12 girls and two boys (1 of which died young) according to a hazy recollection of my husbands sister. This really is all I know - which as you can see , with regard to joseph is of little use.
I really can't thank you all enough for all your digging and suggestions - its good to have some fresh eyes looking at it!
Mandy

1901 England Census 1901 England Census
Name: Sidney White
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Florence
Gender: Male

Civil Parish: Whiteshill
Ecclesiastical parish: Cainscross St Matthew
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Stroud (Gloucs)
Sub registration district: Stroud
ED, institution, or vessel: 15b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 91
Household Members: Name Age
John White 29
Florence White 29
Sidney White 8




Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 2439; Folio: 77; Page: 15.

First child was born during the war. Any chance Joseph was American or Canadian?

Rose

I have found the marriage for a Florence Neale to a John Lewis White June Q 1892.

I am now looking for them on the 1901 census. I know its a long shot, but there may just be a Joseph Harold Newman W? living in the same area.

Gosh , its like a Sad Little Tale all over again.

Jenny

Do the hallmarks on the ring yield any clues? Are they British?

Rose

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page

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Births Sep 1912 (>99%)
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White Edith F Neale Wheatenhurst 6a 594

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Births Jun 1920 (>99%)
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White Margaret E K Neale Wheatenhurst 6a 748

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Births Mar 1929 (>99%)
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White Beatrice D A

Snap Helen I am just trying to find a White/Neale marriage. I found other White/Neale births in Stroud. Still checking .

Jenny