Genealogy Chat

Hello Athena,
Thanks for the offer, here goes:
Francis Gardiner (sometimes Gardner/Gardener) married Mary Johnson in Hull 23 Sept 1850 (I have the marriage cert). It shows Francis as widower. I have Francis's first marriage cert which shows he marries Sarah Pybus 30 April 1846 in Pontefract. I have found Sarahs death in Hull in 1848.

Margaret who replied has put some of them in her reply. There is the question of Joseph born in USA.
My dad died 35 years ago but I can remember him saying we had connections with USA in as much as our family actually owned Keel boats and that one of the children ran away to America with all the money. Its another one of the stories but maybe a grain of truth in it. Also he used to mention Septimus. Both my sisters who are 17 and 19 years older than me can also remember him mentioning an uncle Septimus.
I have today sent for a birth and death cert for Francis. I will try to get all the other in due course. I have mentioned above which ones I already have,
Regards Linda
The first child for Francis and Mary I can find is Francis Gardner born 1851 in Hull (I have sent for this cert today) he dies in Hull in 1862 (he drowned) I have a copy of the coroners report.
George Gardiner born 1853 Bapt Holy Trinity Hull 10.4.1854.
William Gardiner born 1854 Hull died 1855. I found this years ago, he died from decline.
James Robert born 1855 died 1862 decline Hull
Thomas Johnson Gardiner born 1856 bapt Knottingly 9.6.1856
John Thomas born 1856 bapt Knottingly 21.12.1856 (I have birth cert)
Joseph born 1858 USA
Mary Elizabeth Gardiner born 1860 bapt 17.6.1860 Hull died 25.7.1862 measles Hull (I have death cert)
Septimus Gardiner born 22,5,1860 Hull
Catherine Gardiner born 1861 bapt 30.9.1861 Hull
Joan born 1863 bapt 9.8.1863 Knottingly
Francis George born 1865 bapt 20.5.1865 Knottingly
Richard born 1865
James Robert born 18.9.1866 Hull (my grandfather, I have birth cert)
Kate born 1866
Joseph Gardiner born 21.1.1867 Knottingly
Ann born 1868 bapt 6.9.1868 Knottingly
William born 1868
Mary Ann born 1871 Hull
Lavinia born 1873 Hull

I have looked at the census reports for the family in Hull from 1841 and sometimes all the children are there other times some are missing. The trouble is they lived on barges travelleing between Hull and Knottingly so this is what is causing the confusion especially on census night.

Just to make it easy for those looking. I wont add all names..

1861 family transcribed as GARDNER
Joseph 1858 New York. Septimus 11 months Hull


However in 1871 transcribed as GARDINER
Frances Gardiner 1822 Motteneby
Joseph born 1859 United States
Septimus is missing


1881
transcribed as GARDENER
Mary head wife 1833 Hull. sailors wife
Septimus 1861 Hull occ keelman( bargeman)
Catherine 1863 Hull
Mary Ann 1871 Hull
Lavinia 1873 Hull


1851
Frances GARDNER 1824 Knottingley occ mariner
Mary wife 1834 Hull

Hi Linda

Wow - talk about confusion, eh?

Anyway, is it not possible to diferentiate the two families via the census reports?

If you want some help with this let me have all the necessary info and I'll see if I can help separate the two families - I've got time on my hands today to help if you need it.

Regards - Athena

I think I have a real problem. I have been researching my family for over 20 years. I did all the correct things and ordered certs for each person. The trouble started with my grandfather James Robert Gardiner born 1866 in Hull, Yorkshire. His father on his birth cert is Francis Gardiner, mother Mary Gardiner formerly Johnson. I have since obtained a marriage for Francis and Mary in Hull in 1850. This is where things go wrong. It states Francis was born in Knottingly. I have since found 18 children for this couple. They seemed to baptise a child in Knottingly then one in Hull. I have been sending for the odd certificate for the children but then came the shock. My grandfather James Robert born 1866 in Hull the next son was Joseph born 1867 in Knottingly. It was not until I received this birth certificate that I found I have two families all mixed up. There appears to be two Francis and Mary Gardiner both Mary's having the same maiden name. My Francis married in Hull the other married in Wakefield but had children in Knottingly. Both sets of parents ie Francis and Mary are the same ages. How do I prove which children belong to each parents?

Some of course are obvious. Two are Septimus Gardiner (my father used to talk about this uncle) and another Lavinia Gardiner. This name has been handed down through the generations to my sister. Does anyone know how I can separate each family.
The family which I think is mine also has another puzzle. On the various census returns I have found one child born in USA in 1858. Does anyone know how I can get a birth cert for this child please.
I am going out of my mind now. I thought I had everything sorted out but then as mentioned I got the birth cert for the two brothers and there is no way Mary could have had two children in 5 months. My grandfather was born 18.9.1866 and his so called brother 24.2.1867 in Knottingly. Both Francis's were mariners/watermen/merchant seamen which makes it realy confusing.
Please, please can anyone help me sort this problem out. Any suggestions gratefully received.
Thanks.
Linda

Hello Everyone,

I am back from travels and just had a look at the answers from my request. Firstly, I think I know now why the odd numbers only go up to 117 Chiltern Street Hull. This was because it was just being built. I was born in Westbourne Street very near there and this street was not built until the end of 1880's. Athena seems to have found maybe a relative Frederic Robinson but I have to chekc this out. I still have not found Jane Robinson though. There are 16 years missing in her life. The last time I found her was on the 1871 census with her mum and dad in Leeds barracks then the next time is 1887 when she marries my grandad.
Any more ideas would be appreciated from anyone.
Especially Irish as her mother was from Ireland and Gervase (her father) married there and had one child born there before coming back to England and vanishing.
Regards Linda

I just checked my 1881 census discs and they are exactly the same.

It looks as if some of the images are missing or an area got forgotten.

Sue

Have been searching the images on Ancestry for you - in 1881 at No. 134 Chiltern Street there was a Frederic Robinson, widw, boatman, b Lincs with son Frederic and daughter Alice Ann. There is no number 135 listed on that page. They listed only the EVEN numbers of Chiltern Street.

Further towards the end of the 50 images they list the ODD numbers of Chiltern Street - but unfortunately these only go up to 117 Chiltern Street for some reason.

Bit confusing!

Athena

Chiltern St is listed in the Civil Parish of Newington, ED 15 - there are 50 images


Probably not relevant to the address on a marriage cert in 1887 as to who was living there in 1881

Hello Glitter Baby,

Yes I have the marriage cert and yes she is on the 1891/1901 census.
She was Jane Ann Elizabeth Robinson born 15.11.1868 in Aldershot barracks. Her father was Gervase/Jarvis/Jervis Robinson and her mother was Mary A Robinson. I have also found them on the 1871 census living in Leeds. He was a soldier in the 5th Dragoon Guards. I was wondering if my grandmother Jane was put in the care of a family member whilst her family moved about in the army. On her marriage cert it states her father as deceased soldier. I know he left the army in York in 1872 but have no idead where they went from there until she marries in 1887 in Hull. The two witnesses are James (it looks like) Whittaker and Sarah Ann Fox. My grandmother gives her address as 135 Chiltern Street, Hull. Yorks.
I used to live in Hull and Chiltern Street is very near where all our family used to live.
Any help would be appreicated.
Linda

Linda,

Could do with some details.

Do you have your grandmothers wedding cert and have you found her on 1891 and 1901 census?

M

Linda

As Glitter Baby said, the 1881 is searchable by address. You sometimes have to fiddle a bit, eg entering Rd and if nothing comes up enter Road.

Hello Glitter Baby,

Thank you for your reply. My grandmother was not living with her parents at the time of her marriage and I am trying everything I can think of to find her on the 1881 census. She is living with an unknown family and I just wanted to see if she was with them in 1881. Do you know if it is possible to look up an address?
Thanks Linda

1881 can be searched by address

Surely the address would be for the couple getting married and not of a witness?

Does anyone know how I can find someone on the 1881 census with only an address to go on. The person is a witness at my grandmothers wedding but I cannot make out the signature. The address is very clear.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Linda