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1911 Census For England & Wales
8 Marquis Place Woodland Street Burnley Lancashire, Burnley, Lancashire, England

Elizabeth Greenwood Head Widow Female 65 1846 Cotton spinner Colne Lancs
Elizabeth Greenwood Daughter Single Female 25 1886 Cotton winder Lancs Burnley
Milton Greenwood Grandchild - Male 2 1909 - Lancs Burnley
Florence Procter Boarder Single Female 25 1886 Cotton weaver Lancs Burnley
Bertha Pickles Boarder Single Female 27 1884 Cotton weaver Yorks Todmorden

You need John Edward Charles's marriage cert , which hopefully would name his mother - though he may have invented a father's name to save face.

However, playing with this family - just in case Elizabeth Binnersley 1865 ,with mother Harriet, was indeed John Charles Edward's mother -


Elizabeth Bensley
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Bensley
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: 1865
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Benington, Shropshire, England
Civil parish: Pontesbury
Ecclesiastical parish: Longden Chapelry
Town: Longden Common
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Registration district: Atcham
Sub-registration district: Pontesbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 36
Piece: 2763
Folio: 61
Page number: 6


Elizabeth Billinsley
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Billinsley
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relationship to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Pontesbury, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Pontesbury
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Street Address: Albert Arms Pontesbury Hill
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Gen Serv
Registration District: Atcham
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Piece: 2643
Folio: 22
Page Number: 3


Then married John William Dax in 1888 - posted previously.


Unless this is a different Harriet,
Elizabeth's mother Harriet (born c1840 Leebotwood, Shropshire) was with a John Poole in Pontesbury in 1891 and 1901, and still unmarried.

Pontesbury cropped up in John Charles's 1921 criminal record, as already mentioned.

1851:

Harriet Binersley
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Harriet Binersley
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Ch Stretton, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Leebotwood
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: Church Stretton
Sub-registration District: Church Stretton
ED, institution, or vessel: 8a
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 5
Piece: 1984
Folio: 268
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Binersley 16 Head (scored out, and "Daughter" written instead ), unmarried.
Edward Binersley 14 - brother, unmarried
Harriet Binersley 5
James Prikin 6 - brother-in-law [ = step-brother ?]
Jane Binersley 2 - sister


??
PORKINS, JAMES mmn HARRISS
GRO Reference: 1845 M Quarter in CHURCH STRETTON UNION Volume 18 Page 37



BINNERSLEY, JANE mmn HARRISS
GRO Reference: 1849 M Quarter in CHURCH STRETTON UNION Volume 18 Page 33


Jane Binnersley
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Jane Binnersley
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 28 Jan 1849
Baptism Place: Leebotwood,Shropshire,England
Father: Thomas Binnersley
Mother: Sarah
FHL Film Number: 502933


Marriages Mar 1848 (>99%)
BINNERSBY Thomas Church Stretton 18 47
PERKINS Sarah Church Stretton 18 47


Sarah's previous marriage:

Marriages Dec 1843 (>99%)
Harris Sarah Church Stretton 18 59
Perkins William Church Stretton 18 59



Harriet - daughter from Thomas's previous marriage ??

Harriet Binnersley
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Harriet Binnersley
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 20 Jan 1845
Baptism Place: Church Stretton,Shropshire,England
Father: Thomas Binnersley
Mother: Margaret
FHL Film Number: 992085



??
BINNERSLEY, HARRIOTT mmn TURNER
GRO Reference: 1845 M Quarter in CHURCH STRETTON UNION Volume 18 Page 38

Thomas Binsley
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538-1973
Name: Thomas Binsley
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 11 Nov 1823
Marriage Place: Alberbury, Shropshire, England
Spouse: Margaret Turner
FHL Film Number: 1657510
Reference ID: item 19-28 p 37 cn110



??
Thomas Billingsley
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Thomas Billingsley
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1803
Gender: Male
Where born: Shropshire, England
Civil parish: Pontesbury
Hundred: Ford (Ford Division)
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Registration district: Atcham
Sub-registration district: Pontesbury
Neighbors:
Piece: 911
Book: 7
Folio: 22
Page number: 2
Household Members Age
Thomas Billingsley 38
Margaret Billingsley 36
Ann Billingsley 7 [ would fit with Ann in 1851 ]
Elizabeth Billingsley 5


Margaret's death ???:

BINSLEY, MARGARET 45
GRO Reference: 1846 S Quarter in CHURCH STRETTON UNION Volume 18 Page 29


Thomas's death ?? -

BINNERSLEY, THOMAS 58
GRO Reference: 1852 S Quarter in SHREWSBURY Volume 06A Page 425 :

Age stated at death is several years "out".
In 1851 he was in hospital in Shrewsbury - born 1806, which agrees with baptism on 27 April 1806 (as Billingsley)

Mothers are not named on English marriage certs

thanks everyone for so much info. John charles Edward was known as Charlie. He seems like he was offending from a very early age and I notice that one of he and berthas children at age 9 in 1928 in Burnley was caught stealing. He obviously WS a very bad example to his poor children. Poor Bertha had a tough life it seemed and was actually from a reasonably stable family herself who were not known to be in trouble with the police. I am surprised and curious as to why she even married him or how she even met him. I know her mum jemima pickles died young so perhaos she went astray a little as she had her first child out of wedlock. But she married John Charles knowing his criminal back ground and he had attempted suicide twice before he married Bertha in 1915.
Bertha is not My direct ancestor, her first cousin Mary hannah pickles is. I wasn't sure when he died but there is the possibility it is the one in Welshpool and I will get the death certificate to see if I can confirm this. Well done Erica for finding the birth undr the name bennersley. Great work by you all, I really appreciate it very much. Thankyou :-) :-S

I also noticed a lot of their children died very young and bertha must have been exhausted by the time she died I've no doubt. Perhaos she met him while working in Cheshire as I've no clue how she would have met him in Cheshire bucklow. They seemed to come back to burnley straight away. I may have to chrck the article in the newspaper of 1914 to see why he tried to commit suicide and why she agreed to marry him to save him from prison. I did not realuse thst trying to commit suicide was a criminal offence back then. I'll try to chrck the newspaper and this may give me a clue as to how Bertha was connected to this suicide attempt in 1914 :-)Thsnks again for all the info ??????

from 1921 census,

Bertha was born in Yorkshire.

Bertha
Binnersley
1886
Todmorden, Yorkshire, England
Burnley
Burnley


John Charles Edward
Binnersley
1871
Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
Burnley
Burnley
Lancashire.

Lancashire.

Bertha married John in 1914, not 1915:

Marriages Jun 1914
Binnersley John C E Pickles Bucklow 8a 414
PICKLES Bertha Binnersley Bucklow 8a 414

She was already with child:

Births Sep 1914
Binnsley Horace Bickles Atcham 6a 1118

Deaths Sep 1915
Binnersley Horace 1 Burnley 8e 205

Rose

I have downloaded the 1921 record to which I referred and will send it to you as an attachment - GR system permitting!

Thankyou. Sorry I have only just seen this reply to Thankyou so much :-)

Thankyou. Sorry I have only just seen this reply to Thankyou so much :-)

thanks for all that on the binnersley family everyone. you've discovered so much I've got loads to keep me busy. I think I'll get the death certificate for him to see who did inform of the death Thsnks. it would make sense that he went back over to where he was born if his wife had died and I think the children were either in care due to neglect. Poor Bertha and the surviving three children. :-(